xhibit I THE SUPE RIOR COURT OF THE I RG I I SLAN FILED March eM TAMARA HARLE CLERK OF TH COURT IN THE SUPERIOR COURT OF THE VIRGIN ISLANDS Division of St Thomas/St John In the Matter of the Estate of PROBATE CASE NO JEFFREY EPSTEIN ACTION FOR TESTATE Deceased ADMINISTRATION BEFORE APPEARANCES CJ Official Transcript FEBRUARY THE HONORABLE CAROLYN PERCELL Magistrate Judge Presiding ARIEL SMITH ESQ PAMELA TEPPER ESQ Assistant Attorneys General Department of Justice GERS Building.Second Floor St Thomas Virgin Islands On Behalf of the Government William Blum Esg Christopher Kroblin Esq Marjorie Whalen Esq Shari DAndrade Esq Andrew Tomback Esq Daniel Weiner Esq On Behalf of the Co-Executors Pr ob at ST APPEARANCES Contd Douglas Chanco Esq On Behalf of Jennifer Araos Kevin DArnour Esq On Behalf of Maria Farmer Teresa Helm Juliette Bryant Jane Doe and Jane Doe Richard Bourne-Vanneck Esq On behalf of Tela Davis John Benham Esq On Behalf of Jane Doe Melody Westfall Esq On Behalf of Claimants Jane Doe Sean Foster Esq On Behalf of Anonymous Claimant Probate I-N-D-E-X Motion Re Appointment of Appraisers Motion Re Appointment of Master Motion Re Fee Applications Motion Re Quarterly Accountings Motion Re Claims Resolution Program Criminal Activity Lien Notice WITNESSES DIRECT Jordana Harris Feldman Kermeth Feirtl erg Pr ob ate THE COURT Good morning THE CLERK Good morning Probate calendar or Monday February Case Number in the Matter of the Estate of Jeffrey Epstein THE COURT Counsel ATTORNEY BLOM Good morning Your Honor My name is Attorney Wil iam Blum I Counsel for he Co-Executors of the estate of Jeffrey Epstein I am accompanied today by Co-Counsel Christopher Kroblin Marjorie Whalen sitting at Counsels table as wel as Shari DAndrade sitting behind Two mainland attorneys who have been adm i tted pro hac vice in this matter Attorney Andrew Tomback at the end and Attorney Daniel Weiner If it please Your Honor I would like to start by THE COURT Attorney Blum before you proceed 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BKv?t Mb s?Ƣ Ђyl e5U0?z?L oCܜ Nv Wd?(?g?a ð?j wT r2 I ƫv y?(o _V?h?loxrԵ??rW G??E UIv?j J컭 C?FW N?ZM RaF v?J He 7D se?,?z?EiQ?Ke NG?hm قf?L?x?F?C A Ɠu9D?C 㛛IPu k??Q 9D?sJ??pJ 8?L?XO AGJ Rh?/e 3?TҊ?F Yؼz BN?j?I 6T u??ʥ Y5?t??u?ir db?v o?y1s UTP rDT I S??ل C7 ĺB 5C iH D?r?A QU?Ծ µ?Ă i c?wX 0a OڗFY_P?ڷ j?l??A robate ST PB Honor THE COURT be filed in due course Well they can just ATTORNEY BLUM Okay THE COURT Let me just first explain how we are going to work these proceedings today because this is an unusual probate proceeding the Logistics of how Counsel is to come forward to address the Court The estate counsels have been seated at Counsels table What I am now going to ask i that Counsel for other parties come to the podium identify themselves by names and their client Then Im going to ask you to return to the gallery There are numerous motions before the Court pending for today I put them in categories to be dealt with It made sense to me to categorize the motions because it seems they fit into categories in my thinking As the motions are called by category Counsel would then indicate after the Estate has made its arguments to the Court i Counsel wishes to be heard by indication raise your hand and you come Pr obate ST PB-0 forward That is the only way the Court can see how we are going to get through this today to allow everyone to have an opportunity to address the Court on the different issues Fair enough to everyone present in the courtroom ATTORNEY BLUM Thank you Your Honor THE COURT Yes Okay Counsel for claimants or other persons interested in the estate one at a time--I dont know how we are going to do this ATTORNEY CHANCO Good morning Your Honor Douglas Chanco here today on behalf of Claimant Jennifer Araos THE COURT Attorney Chanco are you an attorney licensed here in the Virgin Islands ATTORNEY CHANCO Yes Maam THE COURT Never met you before ease to meet you Sir ATTORNEY CHANCO Thank you THE COURT Do you mind spelling your name for the Court so that Madam Clerk could have eve_ything correct there reba te ATTORNEY CHANCO Absolutely THE COURT And you represent which claimant ATTORNEY CHANCO Jennifer Foster Araos ATTORNEY DAMOUR Good morning Your Honor Kevin DAmour Im here on behalf of THE COURT Attorney DAmour Good morning ATTORNEY DAMOUR five different claimants Im also here with two of the state side Counsel that at some point may want to address the Court if they are permitted THE COURT Have they been admitted ATTORNEY DAMOUR They have not been admitted but their application is pending THE COURT Without the admission I dont believe they can address the Court They can address the Court through you attorney Proba PB ATTORNEY DAMOUR I understand Your Honor Our claimants are Ms Maria Farmer Teresa Helm Juliette Bryant and a claimant who has been ident ified as a Jane Doe Our other claimant one moment is also identified as a Jane Doe but all the cases are pending in the Southern District of New York Thank you Your Honor THE COURT Thank you attorney DAmour Your Honor ATTORNEY WESTFALL Good morning THE COURT Good morning ATTORNEY WESTFALL Im Me lody Westfall of Westfall Law based in St Croix admitted in the Virgin Islands THE COURT Melonie ATTORNEY WESTFALL Melody THE COURT Melody ATTORNEY WESTFALL Melody Westfall W-E-S-T-F-A-L-L Im here on behalf of Claimants Jane Doe through Nine of those twelve have filed a Complaint in Supreme Court in New York by Jordan Merson of Merson Probate Law PLLC and we will be submitting his pro hac vitae application THE COURT Have you filed a notice of appearance with this Court ATTORNEY WESTFALL On Friday we filed the motion to proceed anonymously and a notice of claim and a claim for unliquidated for damages and on Monday yesterday we filed a motion to intervene THE COURT In which District ATTORNEY WESTFALL We filed it in St Croix and they told us they would go over the documents THE COURT It hasnt made it to the Courts file it hasnt made it to my file When you say in St Croix you were not one of the names that was relayed to me this morning so I dont have any of your documents before me at this time ATTORNEY WESTFALL Thank you THE COURT All right ATTORNEY FOSTER Good morning Your Honor THE COURT Good morning Sir ATTORNEY FOSTER Sean Foster I Probate ST represent approximately two dozen victims of Jeffrey Epstein and we have filed a motion to proceed anonymously in this matter THE COURT Okay Good morning Attorney Foster ATTORNEY SMITH Good morning Your Honor Ariel Smith Virgin Islands Department of Justice on behalf of the Government of the Virg i I sla nds Before the Court we have a motion to intervene with a nu mber of exhibits but that is the only actual motion pending before this Court Thank you THE COURT Okay Attorney Smith Good morn in ATTORNEY TEPPER Good morning Your Honor Pamela Tepper representing the Government of he Virgin Islands and as Co-Counse has already stated we hav a motion before the Court THE COURT Good morning Attorney Tepper ATTORNEY BOURNE-VANNECK Good morning Your Honor Richard Bourne-Van neck on behalf of claimant Tela Davis Im admitted to practice in the Virgin I slands Probate THE COURT Yes Attorney Bourne-Vanneck Good morning to you ATTORNEY BOURNE-VANNECK Thank you Attorney Benham good morning Your Honor THE COURT Good morning Attorney Benham ATTORNEY BENHAM John Benham of the law offices of John Benham PC Yes I am admitted to practice in the Virgin Islands THE COURT Yes Attorney Benham ATTORNEY BENHAM I have appeared and Im proceeding anonymously for Jane Doe We have filed a creditors claim combined with a motion to proceed by pseudonym that was filed on December 19th and it does appear on the docket I have a copy of the docket sheet THE COURT All right Thank you Has the Court now heard from all counsel who would like to be heard this morning The first motion that the Court will consider is the Motion For Appointment of Appraisers for real properties located in New Probate York New Mexico and Florida This is a motion filed by the estate by the Co-Executors where they move the Court to appoint appraisers pursuant to Rule A of the Virgin Islands Rules of Probate and Fiduciary Proceedings to appoint appraisers in the jurisdictions of New York New Mexico Florida to appraise the real property that may be of interest to this estate Counsel ATTORNEY WHALEN Good morning Your Honor THE COURT Good morning ATTORNEY WHALEN The estate filed a THE COURT Just state your name ATTORNEY WHALEN My apologies Marjorie Whalen for the executors of the estate The estate filed a motion for appointment of appraisers on January This is a motion Your Honor to appoint three appraisers for three properties in three jurisdictions in Florida New Mexico and New York Each of the three proposed appraisers have executed and submitted affidavits to the Probate Court affirming that they are competent and qualified appraisers and that they are licensed in their jurisdictions The first appraiser is Bryan Rogers and he is proposed to appraise two properties in New York He is a licensed appraiser and is Senior Vice President at Miller Samuel Inc which is a New York based Real Estate Appraisal and Consulting firm And the second appraiser is Jim Connolly and the executors seek his appointment to appraise real property in New Mexico Mr Connolly is a licensed appraiser as well and has also submitted his affidavit affirming his experience The third proposed appraiser is Michael Slade and the estate seeks to appoint him to appraise the property in Florida THE COURT Are you completed with your argument or your information to the Court ATTORNEY WHALEN Yes We have submitted the affidavits and I believe we G.du A1aq4?F e?u fg M?Jp-e ӫ?yk?O5?i?ޕ yg?Y??t?pfi?B J?ޕ?s iT?T rA OΆ cЪ?g f?Ɛ1I A Vn?l?.m a H?hx?5?L?t 宛??W 9J JH T??a BP(h,c9??OA Qx AA??_w X?L ԗ?w?U?U Z??Q ܚ?V 3i?L?i??j뻯x i ѫ:?D?o e?wT?Gy4 D?Ƥ aq Zk2 vQw x?C D?j x??N 0E鋎e Sf z?x?t?J X?T fh??Ƣ i??s?n G?J ʞQ?ξ I j??B Tзm r?N?o a gD ԩ?qB Έa??fK?c Rͺ p?s IL Sh 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Probate submitted everything needed to appoint these appraisers and we have not received any objection or opposition to our request for their appointment THE COURT Let me see if there is any Counsel who wishes to address that motion for appointment of appraisers for real properties located in New York New Mexico and Florida ATTORNEY SMITH I would like to THE COURT Attorney Smith ATTORNEY SMITH Good morning Your Honor With regard to the motion THE COURT Just identify yourself All Counsels when you come to the podium again identify yourselves by name please ATTORNEY SMITH Okay Attorney Ariel Smith on behalf of the Government of the Virgin Islands With regard to the motion that was made earlier before the Court and filed prior to that one of the questions we would ask the Court to inquire of the executor who owns the properties from which theyre rob at 9-PB seeking the appraisal and what interest do they represent in the estate because that was not clear from the motion nor the representations before this Court THE COURT Okay Attorney Smith and Attorney Whalen Attorney Smith has nailed what this Court the concerns this Court has concerning that motion is that you are seeking for the court to appoint appraisers located in these jurisdictions As I have it in the petition that was filed petition for probate and for letters testamentary The estate of Jeffrey Epstein does not own any real property Its set forth and I know this is the initial petition but its set forth that these properties in question are owned by corporations for which the decedent may have owned shares in the corporation So the question wou be What is it that we are seeking to value ATTORNEY SMITH Thats it THE COURT Is it the real property or is it the shares his ownership of the shares And I would say because the Court has no jurisdiction over real property located rob a ST PB-0 outside of the jurisdiction that is why the Court usually does not have to appoint appraisers located in any jurisdiction other than the Virgin Is ands And I know what you set forth as the proposed rates for these appraisers This Court has a rate schedu for its appraisers that begins at and does not exceed for reports to be shared by two persons ATTORNEY SMITH Your Honor if I might add that the i rst quarterly accounting that was literally filed I bel i eve either Friday or yesterday reflects no real estate owned by the decedent THE COURT And Attorney Sm i th also she is correct In the first quarter accounting filed with the Court il ed yesterday the first quarterly accounting says rea property none and i provides a schedule as persona property and on that schedule valuation is prov i ded for all the corporate entities in which the decedent is alleged to have owned percent and I have values for those So thats what the Court would rob a believe the Court would need What is the value of the share held by th decedent not to appraise the real property located in these jurisdictions because I would have no idea what is proposed by these appraisers is fair and reasonable Attorney Blum ATTORNEY BLUM Attorney Will i am Blum for the Co-Executors of the estate of Jeffrey Epstein Your Honor the real properties that we are seeking to be appraised are each found in separate corporations that are Virgin Islands corporations Those are the only substantial assets of each of those corporations So for us to be able to evaluate these stocks of these corporations we need someone needs to make a determination as to wha is the value of the underlining real estate Now if Your Honor is suggesting that we should make our own decision as to how to evaluate the property thats owned by these corporations we would do so and then we would use that as evidence of the value of the stocks and perhaps if required we cou have a separate appra i ser who could affirm that Probate ST 9-PB-OOBO although it is sort of fairly obvious THE COURT Well Attorney Blum Im saying if the shares are what is owned by the estate ATTORNEY BLUM Correct THE COURT The V.I Corporations Im assuming they are still in operation and have corporate government whether Officers Board of Directors continuing to function that someone needs to make sure that their cell phone or whatever electronic device they have is turned off--it also would seem to me these corporations would have had annual reports tax returns something that would be able to value what the value of the shares held What I am addressing is the motion to appoint appraisers to appraise real property when I have the decedent does not own any real property and any appraisal that I sent or gave an order to would have been for real property located here in the Virgin Islands So as it pertains to Attorney Smith ATTORNEY SMITH Yes Your Honor Pr ob ate I would just ask I think what is Well or what the Court may want to inquire of is which of the companies that was owned by the decedent own these real properties since thats what they are suggesting is the case That is not clear in the motion THE COURT But its set out in the petition for probate shares of Maple Inc a U.S Virgin Islands corporation which holds title to Nine East Street New York shares of Cypress Inc a U.S Virgin Islands Corporation which holds title to Zorro Ranch Road Stanley New Mexico shares of Laurel Inc a u:s Virgin Islands Corporation which holds title to property located in Palm Beach Florida shares of SCIJEP a french company which holds title to some real property located in Paris shares of Poplar Inc a U.S Virgin Islands corporation which holds title to Great St James Island Probate ST shares of Nautilus Inc a Virgin Islands corporation which holds title to Little St James Island So its set out in the petition So it would seem to me thats what the Court and in the petition and the filing there was an estimated value provided for what those shares would be so the Court sees no reason the Court would need to appoint an appraiser to appraise the real property That information should be to be given by the corporation the Officers from whether your annual report to verify it and in your quarterly accountings in the petition we had values presented the first quarterly accounting again has values presented so the Court will deny the motion for the appointment for the appraiser for the real property located in New York New Mexico and Florida So that motion is denied ATTORNEY BLUM Your Honor if I may nevertheless the estate will need to appraise those properties at lea st for estate tax purposes in order to provide appropriate value for the estate tax returns Probate THE COURT The properties or the shares ATTORNEY BLUM The shares of stock the companies that owns the stock that owns the real property Those are going to be listed in the estate tax returns THE COURT And Im saying to you these are corporations functioning ATTORNEY BLUM Yes THE COURT With Officers Board of Directors who can do whatever is needed as a corporate structure to valuate the shares owned by its shareholders ATTORNEY BLUM Thank you Your Honor THE COURT Okay ATTORNEY SMITH Your Honor I would just say that this is kind of an extraordinary circumstance because it appears that in a number of these corporations the decedent was the sole shareholder and Im concerned as to what that might suggest to the estate what they are able to do without input from the Court THE COURT What Im saying lS I ro ate ST have it that these are corporations Im assuming corporations that are operating according to Virgin Islands corporate law or any jurisdiction where they have been created Corporations having a creation separate and apart from the shareholders or from the estate The estate is saying we own shares in these corporations The Cour at this poin does not know how the co-executors are involved with the corporations I assuming the corporatio are operat i ng separate and apart from the estate because they are corporations Unless I have something different to inform me Im taking the decedent own shares in the is ed corporations whether he own percent it is ill entities separate and apart from his estate Okay Attorney Blum A TORNEY SMITH Thank you ATTORNEY BLUM Yes Your onor THE COURT All right Next motion that was fi ed on August Motion for the appointment of a Master pu suant to Virgin Is ands Rule of Civil Procedure in wh i ch Z?5W fu??rO??W sH G?AV t?b ȝ?b S?D 2S B6?óR K??z?ЕPܖ?z N9Tg?Q Lދ V?P?W H?W S??d X?M MK?pG?ݸl Bd Eeu ޟj??Q msϕ 7i Tб ƻz,??d QC?M aղ j?b H6 j?jVů?_ ZCi?1??N i PĚEx?P?YM O01r?BG4?Ԁ 8n P??yP a?o??i??JE ö?zi 0bMH IĮ K??O?ykH?gqՁ I r?h?C Ft U?ED cb?N_,b?FZܟ Ԁ?Xd P??ۻ z?W B5Ý?_R TL?W m??W A2 ZF sW kZLT m?1??Ƌrz dT z-?i L?H IJ Afi yc?-?O?W?Z k??D 3X o怉 Vy E?A qy?ꈌ(A?.o鋃?2K A c?b A"?A uf i a?Ɋ i?J?n l??ԙ j?qq n?r0K r?l c?r?b w?mR??FR Z?pU M?R5?Y??c?âī vg b??c WJx4?V ٴ?i2 sd.2b i W?j g?t?A u??W Kf F??tX??vK x?Պ US 3U j??L p?װ?MƇ?h Uw㙪T T3 d4 K?of Tc v?"Y?!ұG5i p?l w?R ڡ?7Ë N?G Y??M R?FQ??sE z?f?D s/?p m?:i m?LOHj cH P?τ?R?G a A i Ƨ?wO ew??ħr rʍq m涓E R?Q Tt Fm-?p?r B/?X NQ yZ ݠX N?w?ݸ 4h F?;O?h X?I??Ӭu j?T??xs?px m?khH)?5cG?q?Y Y5 ѓy De.C?A?b s?,v?v?y Qw?9U z霁 Yg U?Hۮ?.:?Mi A dp ىѭu t?Z Y??z up QM I m?k8 6m??Zg nݦM!;?It?9 TO?r?y 4e?j?H 9?ey ޜ?oA hF ȵp GA 8o E9Inw Ĺ?x OR?-?R A ParJ?3aL G?ڝa?T D?Ҿ Nli r?s R?i ٺh HO h0 Wl??L VnJA?a U??ڲ H??s?tfN p??Dc E?E 4Zq?m nKv2 Rح a Z??l??Д?Kd a nm?W?Ԕf Cϵ_ m1 na GoŘ?A?7S?Šʗ oC??åF o?읮 xd Mȯ 9G TG e?WZ?_ J?0i fk6??n N??A?ˑJa ɬR 8o Z?A?M?ae u?L1w GSb?Pk?v Q?fc GI cMeQ?X H?yҚ ٨R J?K7q?H ŏ??nYhW S딀?r ÊFd?L ru iԲ e?a g۰ p??w E?w Μ?y?7W jW X?P էv?t U7 T?I oF 8ö PѼ bZ?;Q p?K i RS a i ib:JB I?;D G?U??DF tu0 CI?O??fip?E?i4 C??H h?AKQ?TGEy s?ȥ?a N?o a 5?uI OF OG Opje bg pj y?r k:WD5 c?l??L c?U?IJ Mc把 GY.v s9?U d.?X P?ջ??/wW?P?H x?B EL Sɧ C繝 ږ?窑bN?U0 i yh?x l?/o OX:È?p?U?t M9zw??O I dԵZ Q?N guK W??l?Nh?B?:ܔ?倍?b j?LV fNC?XT?4m uv btK pĀx p?o xGÜ b?X j)mBx xX?m s߆ EsG bC la I נr bS TR CsVS a yW X7?ڡ Fg j??L X?u ōN?_ u?R D?N?:S 6?ҝSw?W L?a fe?1 q?o?D?Os PX??F di hM ۆ.?Y O7 Z?d?3ý J??W T?j p??n??YS Mc GN?yبX 0E 5nir a?o??c G,?B a ιXe?ݑEĖA??d?k?_?5?c?Ÿ?I B?F?i ޠ2 MH?ו hï V?H??m Vfy2c L??T?Ձ?x?Ys Z7 L?ZYBw I Wɰ G7 O??W Ƹv?M 8?Y?X?qo)H φ?9lդޤ?0 ڈ?v FeE G?ǒ T??c 0s No Ӏa ƻlR?L?Ɵ A lC hH?䨫 V?M btAQ OՋ UV FO?1 L?q f?P?D V櫙b gŎv v?ƪ Qg Fa?B?D e??p i?oO dLPY 75vc rC LⰇU P??M H?v?p Q?e e?Z d?gw r??C?qo 9v?X bB a?/EM lG?z r??a Hz?6J f?jx M?k Faya?n??F Β?p n??Z F?.gFJ 鲐?E??ݯli??վ w?a GA7ht o??R c?7l E?6A H_ qqY s0钅??u 9ܗ ZX Z?FӴ??z Zwh p5B TV GV E4 蓷?v QM?Rيyk?:D?ݑj?/4 k??zFQ??g Qg?ut í??n K?I z)"ԕ Hᆮ N?X Vmao?,C??8 aANO-?T Hg1p U??Fp z?6C q!??WxN sa Զ?Q?w?5O S?3GY VcK d?W c?k u??K J?BN W?Q Z?"x?Кii RI_Rh 6B a z?xM?J6 Gw a qp a?rRC s?ˌ I VNL UX 7cw?юWE?H??,T?ɲ6;P rq WsP Q9 sx?4 8V FK u?k Z?A BU?;?lsFv Ѵgߨ8 NUf?5??A?NP5e x?oo?K Tq NK䚃?H?8 yH??Q 3Y n?a Kד?M??J?2?Uʧ i l:h?S g瞏?J o4sj 5)tv?iJ u?L ĺD Y?l n?X1 WS?1X?u)h VL k?W Ҹj T??u v9?R a f?L C?Pb C4?S"i j:?ߢQ k.la?9?p z??C4?dq Td ױ?t к?s cG??t?ՠ??S 6tC oW?Aa Lp?s oZώ?ԟ _L ȫ?E oK?Z?e qS xo۲ a ar?n?T kR 8m Gݓ m?E lp?b Xo A oH ć??p Lڽ dM yT Ʈ?MC K?m1?d f0w g?t?Ik?cYmrf cka ez i V?jM sK Nl?fat MGy Wu?jV 6T?S 铺H Y?Y VۇV?pp 3T 9?Yh?IS?n pA D?M(?N ОӬ I P?C c??P Dx x?O 9V!Y Ü?a I CIߖ Xg?3 Ce??V amy K??Ma?B??y Y?Z?!Iש T??x?Ǻ?ts2pa r?R 6c?Δ bޤa5 i q??Aw?gF?yā??f Ћ?k F??ő 2?QK g-һ?n h?)?dcG B1 GV?Zj-?Q a T3 OV?x Ad af A I G?T GN?_ 3ep?KQw ouƉnY jQO?b j?B?y?ml ۯ?Ќ맬 w?M r?k ifw bZ 8j i VW A F?Ñ tJt n??t کx?1k c??JE WήKv6?9 bՀ Li NR B?B RŢ HP Za Փ?G?D?oW A b??m x兀 v0 L?R Gbγ??m??l UC??J a G??ˡ ـ??o wS SA?(??J?fE I Lj?OB??G?v Ԏ?Nr rհ?Ӡ?I d??m?Ru I Q??x Q?tX ce7 z??n?Qtq?Eބ cX 7?鷂o I J?M?IG??D Efb?k Pr ob ate the Executors--co-executors move to appoint a master which in summary they set out to assist the Court with what they believe would be a complicated probate proceeding ATTORNEY KROBLIN Yes Your Honor Your Honor THE COURT Attorney Kroblin ATTORNEY KROBLIN Thank you THE COURT I said your name but for the record ATTORNEY KROBLIN Yes Christopher Kroblin on behalf of the executors of the estate of Jeffrey Epstein Your Honor we submitted this motion in anticipation of this estate involving much more work than the average estate pending before this Court and in particular to deal with a couple of issues one of which and an important one is dealing with administrative costs of the estate particularly attorney fees that needs Court approval Weve submitted now four different fee applications and we have I believe two more that will be filed this week Pro ate ST PB and another one or two next week So that brings it to about a otal of eight fee applications and they are ongoing For a little background Your Honor we have not addressed yet there are numerous lawsuits pending in the United States There are some Plaintiffs that have filed suits in different lawsuits and we have retained the estate has retained Counsel trave ing to represent the estate in the defense of those lawsuits most al being filed in New York at this time and some other ones So Your Honor the estate has urgent need to appear in these matters and defend the matters They are currently you know in progress I guess at this junction none of them have really gone to the i scovery phase yet but we understand if they were to go under discovery which is imminent tha the costs would skyrocket for the representation of the estate So the need to timely approve the fee applications we find to be highly important particularly with the number of Probate lawsuits pending and the matter of attorney fees the estate has sustained in defense these lawsuits Thats the reason weve asked that the Court consider the appointment of a Master to assist with those fee applications and he may also be able to potentially assist with other issues the Court may have or want to refer to the Master Weve proposed Britain Bryant who is here in the courtroom with us today THE COURT Attorney Bryant Honor ATTORNEY BRYANT Yes Your THE COURT Good morning Sir ATTORNEY KROBLIN And Your Honor he is the oldest practitioner in the Virgin Islands Bar currently Laughter THE COURT Oldest practitioner I dont think that is what you want to say sir He might be the longest serving pra ti ioner I think that is what you want to say the longest practice ATTORNEY KROBLIN That is correct That is correct And Your Honor he Probate ST 9-PB is you know obviously he has many years of experience and has been more recently a partner in a large firm in the Virgin Islands and he is used to dealing with you know engagement of attorneys and fee applications and knows how they are submitted under the Virgin Islands Court rules and we submit that he would be of assistance to the Court to prepare reports for the Courts consideration you know to review the fees all the entries the rates and make a recommendation to Your Honor that may assist in moving these fee applications along so the Court cant be bogged down with that We know there are many more other complicated issues that this Court is going to have to deal with and that are being presented in this estate and we think that it would be of great assistance to the more routine fee applications to have assistance We filed our application pursuant to Virgin Islands Rules of Civil Procedure which we believe the probate rules allow to look to the Rules of Civil Procedure when theres no rule on point in the robate probate rules Rule lays out the requirements for the appointment of a Master In particular Rule authorizes the appointment of a Master to address pretrial and posttrial matters that cannot be effectively and timely addressed by an available Judge or Magistrate Judge Your Honor we believe that this would help address this aspect of the case and move the fee applications along some of which have been pending for sometime now Particularly the Troutman Sanders fee application There are two now pending with a third on its way THE COURT Let me ask you this Attorney Kroblin ATTORNEY KROBLIN Yes THE COURT What fee application comes before this Court Which are the ones that have been presented to this Court sitting in probate ATTORNEY KROBLIN I believe any the Courts order when the initial order was entered required that all estate attorney fees be approved by this Court Pr obate ST PB THE COURT Estate attorney fees ATTORNEY KROBLIN A-hem THE COURT Estate attorneys Who are the estate attorneys What law firm is the estate attorney ATTORNEY KROBL I Well Your Honor my law firm of course is representing the estate and the administration of the estate but with regard to the lawsuits filed in New York the co-executors have been sued on behalf of the estate essentially They have been sued in a number of lawsuits and those co-executors have gone out and retained Counsel to represent them in the lawsuit to represent the es ate in the lawsuit and so we believe that those attorneys require approval of this Court to be paid If they do not then weve reso ved an issue Your Honor but if they do and in an abundance of caution weve asked you know for approval from Your Honor to not be in violation of the order THE COURT All right Thank you Sir I there anyone wishing to be heard on the appointment of the Master ATTORNEY SMITH Yes Your Honor Pr ob ate ST PB THE COURT You know what Also I looked for the appointment of the Master to also assist in the settlement of claims but wouldnt that be addressed under that Voluntary Claims Program ATTORNEY KROBLIN Yes Your Honor we fi ed the motion for the Master prior to filing the motion for that so we were unsure how things would necessarily shake out if you wil THE COURT Okay ATTORNEY KROBLIN i the Voluntary aims Prog am our mot i on so we submit that if we do have a Master appointed you know it cou possibly come into ay at some po i nt It wou be useful in assisting with that in some manner but I think it wou epend on how the Court considers to use the claims program and how it is actually structured and put together in the end HE COURT Okay Thank you Sir Attorney Srni th ATTORNEY SMITH Yes THE COURT Just again identify yourself Proba ATTORNEY SMITH Yes I would Your Honor Ariel Smith again on behalf of the Government of the Virgin Islands First of all Your Honor we have the utmost confidence in your ability to handle this probate estate THE COURT Im glad you do ATTORNEY SMITH The utmost You have had several years working in probate and youre excellent in that particular area of law so we would object just on those grounds Notwithstanding that we have some additional concerns One it appears that the estate is seeking to use the decedents estate to pay expenses that let me rephrase this The Court is correct that the Court would evaluate fee a plications relating to estate attorneys expenses The expenses that they are seeking to have paid are relating to lawsuits which are not necessari expenses that are in the ordinary course of the business or expenses that are directly related to the running and the preservation of the estate roba ST So I think the proper course of action should have been when the lawsuits are filed the Court needs to be immediately informed as to what is going on a proper motion be brought before the Court and then they ask for the ability to retain Counsel as opposed to retaining Counsel and saying Your Honor we need to pay these fees Were concerned about those types of actions without the Courts authority the CourtJs permission being sought that would ultimately dissipate the estate prematurely without this Court having full knowledge of exactly whats going on THE COURT But wouldnt the Court have knowledge because the executors are required to file quarterly accountings ATTORNEY SMITH Your Honor first of all the executors have not even filed an inventory so at this point as we sit here this morning this Court nor the executors based on the first quarterly accounting know exactly what the assets are within this estate THE COURT And if I understand H?J 椂s M?ߛ a?b x??B?d8?i?Zv Ұ?ɗ DG 拤?lT 吋?ޑE 0u?Y?JD dB F?X?Ȕ nK Ro 3埀a?s?m I??Z t?n JC Y??r zH Pr bat ST it they didnt file the inventory because they were waiting for the appointment of the appraisers they believed the appra i sal was necessary We do have the first quarterly accounting ATTORNEY SMITH Well Your Honor if you look at what they provided as the firs quarterly accounting therers a number of assets which they indicate to be undeterminable that are right after the statement that theres no eal property and then theres a number THE COURT Determined by appraisa ATTORNEY SMITH Right but those are assets that are re ated to personal property meaning watches jewelry not the real estate that hey were suggesting as part of their earlier motion So its a different evaluation that needs to be done to fu ly have the Court understand what this estate consist of So we believe that the first quarterly accounting is premature and not complete There are a number of issues with i that we can ta about when the Court gets to that obate motion I dont want to be premature with that but as far as a Special Master we dont think its necessary and we think that we have to be careful in this estate in having the executors make decisions about expending estate assets without previously seeking permission by the Court and its also clear in the quarterly accounting that they have already begun to do so THE COURT Well under the terms of the Last Will and Testament of Jeffrey Epstein dated August of which was admitted into court at Paragraph the testator specifically authorize his executors to appoint agents attorneys of law consultants investment advisors and to pay for such services from the assets of my estate without obtaining judicial authorization or approval The testator specifically provided for that ATTORNEY SMITH Your Honor THE COURT Let me continue ATTORNEY SMITH Yes Your Honor THE COURT When the Court issued the order the Courts order which is a Prob ate ST 9-PB standing or er issued in eve estate provided that attorney fees hould not be paid and this was an order dated September of it provided that the co-executors shall not pay from decedents estate any attorneys fees or co-executors fees for services rendered to the estate without prior approval of this Court It contemplates Virgin Islands Rule of Probate Procedure Rule that provides in part Simultaneously with the filing of the final account an administrator executor or attorney shall make app li cation to the Court for an award of fees and costs where appropriate for services performed in the execution or administration of an estate The fee petition shal clearly state the hourly rate for fees charged for services rendered an explanation of the services provided and specific dates and time spent performing such service identified in the petition The Probate Court reviews the fees and expenses of probate counsel estate counsel because that is the work that is before this Court whether in filings to the ate ST Court appearances before the Court so the Court can then make a determination whether the fees sought and the time expended was reasonable given the nature of the estate This Court does not review as the co-executor who had the fiduciary duty to represent the estate and preserve and protect its assets the Court does not then when an executor has to hire a counsel for a civil proceeding a counsel to represent the estate say with the bank and a mortgage proposal then say you have to now come in for me to review those fees because I dont have that work before me to determine if its reasonable Its estate counsel the Court reviews the fee applicatio of and that has been the practice of this Court of the Probate Division ATTORNEY SMITH I understand that Your Honor This particular case also presents a unique circumstance in that on January 17th based on the filing of a CICO action there was notice given to the Probate Court with regard to the Governments lien in an effort to preserve the assets of the estate Pr bate based on the pending CICO litigation So I think that particular event THE COURT Okay ATTORNEY SMITH changed to some extent the Courts oversight over this estate THE COURT And I agree and that is something we are going to have to flesh out if this hearing continues this morning--what now happens when now the Government having filed that lien but to address that lien correct and to address whatever civil proceeding the Government is going to file would not the co-executors have to retain counsel ATTORNEY SMITH Well the co-executors have been served and counsel for that proceeding has not made an appearance So to that end we can address it when the need arises THE COURT Okay Im going to pick up the attorneys fees in this matter Im going to go to that now And I have right now concerning the appointment of a Master and I understand what is set forth Im going to UHq?ڒ?y3h c?f6 da?Ň X?i?ǫ Ð?s k?om ҝfg q;?TeU K?p Q?:EZ boP y??a?z g??b CQ??L K??C?N k??Pdj??LJ A MW KD nj _y V2y zFa s??U?r r,L?ˮ.U?b Q?N Jr E;u u??m j?l z??䁇 U?f?w gҧ P?y Pl?I?.HS??gOz A a U3 xE jW?1f?R ō?0f A Hm??u?f/?夘?kK?s cZ 7?yk?p?,ŚC K?w i vd HXA ѯ?tb Rw?e G?I?灸p9 i K?t??Fb F??R mP u?uTw Wx?c Jx x??O BiT(C 9e J??f p?w F?X VGb F?G 7F I S7 A US Trhn-E Fx 2y W?i 5J j?Yb Tv Z_ vH 6z Db M9 N?z?M 4?ZZ ԧ?tP?GJ?0?v!N M?v 1?EEA?R?p si?l x?x CڥD u?f:p?v??BP D?S ΩRZ??gŋC?a5?i U?N jɕ NBh y?Gv?6?D;IJ?f 4fe D?Juyg?Mr?H?i?mM?9 Lq V5VlW?v?5 hz i ڠ??4i䈠 o?t 3е d?Rd i??VL VXq QE?w n0 AF I?u?j?A ugy?pj wϙx KvHs?յv9 bF 3?G?qJ?i w??E s??Z tR?2?p oau?y??Zlf 9iW 4V N?j3?QX h??F Bߺ?ʍ?_t m7 a ev C?BxEpQ Ro?Q a?dR I s,KSZ jH sO Ɓ.g?ت L?w NQ I r;z lf Wȅo?lL h??n cr?O Ǝ8?N i 8K 9OC a h?iN?g e7 b?W CJ?v 6砅??qoB 7?go qx bR uN?X E?qX roba te eB OB deny the appointment of the Master without prejudice This Court while there maybe quite a number of filings it may be a different type of probate proceedings I still see it as a probate where persons have to the co-executors are going out to defend the estate but as a probate filing the quarterly accountings filing the inventory keeping the Court apprised as to whats going on The Court is not going to intervene in what may be happening in New York I have no authority to do that The report would be mailed back to me that these matters have been settled Should we go and set up the voluntary resolution program it would be settled from there The co-executors have started to convert assets because they have the authority of law to do that I see in the quarterly accountings notations that properties,vehicles may have been sold and converted to cash am I correct ATTORNEY KROBLIN Right THE COURT As the co-executors they have the authority by statute and by the decedents Last Will and Testament to do that obate 9-PB and all they are doing is keeping the Court aware of where the assets are how they are being used So the ruling on the Master is denied without prejudice at this point in the proceedings ATTORNEY KROBLIN Thank you Your Honor If I may just for my clients sake just so to make sure that I understand the ruling of the Court because the Order did say the co-executors shall not pay from decedents estate any attorneys fees and co-executors fees for services rendered to the estate without prior approval of the Court Is it my understanding that we know that only applies to the firm representing the estate and these proceedings have not THE COURT That have always been my understanding as a Practitioner in Probate when I practiced probate law and the time that Im sitting on the bench because the Court cannot--I would tie your hands if each and every time you had to come before me to robat PB-0 ask can this be done You set forth here in the motion for approval for Trotman and Saun er Honor ATTORNEY KROBLIN Yes Your THE COURT I believe he was retained during the decedents lifetime If I understand the reading the co-executors are seein to a for ser i were re to the decedent am I correct ATTORNEY KROBLIN No Your Honor THE COURT Okay ATTORNEY KROBLIN Im sorry THE COURT Okay Let me hear it ATTORNEY KROBLIN We did do that Your Honor We did make payments for services rendered during his lifetime THE COURT Okay ATTORNEY KROBLIN The only thing weve sought the Courts approval for is after he died the services that were then retained by the co-executors to represent the estate THE COURT But for matters when he was alive he was facing there was a federal robate 9-PB ATTORNEY KROBLIN Uhmm--well there was a THE COURT Listen here Dont say no Let me get it United States versus Jeffrey Epstein Criminal Southern District of New York This is the motion for approval of payment of Steptoe and Johnson LLP an Incorporated Memorandum of Law During his lifetime he retained the law firm to provide necessary legal representation Upon decedents death the Federal criminal case proceeded until August 29th at and Steptoes representation discontinued shortly thereafter So then I have a fee affidavit for that correct ATTORNEY KROBLIN Yes Your Honor THE COURT So the decedent had retained him in his lifetime to represent him He died They continued representation Now theyre seeking to be paid am I correct as to that ATTORNEY KROBLIN Theyre seeking to be paid only for the post-death Probate ST fees incurred The pre-death fees the executors went ahead and paid THE COURT Right but now for what they did to bring this matter to conclusion correct ATTORNEY KROBLIN Correct Your Honor THE COURT I do not see that the Probate Court--this is not the kind of fees Im reading that the Probate Court i said needed to come before the Probate Court for approval So as it per ains to the motion for app oval of Steptoe and Johnson Trotman and Saunders--and again Trotman and Saunders then it was renewed with additiona fees and it is my understanding that Trotman Saunders LLP is representing the estate in New York for these numerous cases that have been filed by the alleged victims of sexual assault cor ect ATTORNEY KROBLIN Correct Your Honor ATTORNEY SMITH Your Honor if I may just for clarification I am not sure how Probate ST the legal fees requested by these firms are any different than creditors claim THE COURT You know how they are different Im going to tell you They are different pursuant to Title Virgin Islands Code Section an executor or administrator shall be allowed in the settlement of his account all necessary expenses incurred in the care management and settlement of the estate including reasonable attorneys fees and any necessary litigation or matter requiring legal advice or Counsel When we appoint executors or any person of fiduciary capacity we want to make sure that this person can complete his or her fiduciary responsibilities to the Court The person is given all rights to go and retain Counsel because the Court says he is taking an oath to protect the assets of the estate The fiduciary the co-executor goes out and retains Counsel to litigate to represent the estate whether its in an automobile accident case whether its in a mortgage foreclosure wherever the estate is now being sued and the Court says by statute Probate Virgin Islands law says the Legislature has determined that executor is allowed the attorney fees in the necessary litigation and where he needed the legal advice of Counsel Legal advice of Counsel was needed is needed in these ongoing matters pending in New York The executors the co-executors have retained Counsel to represent the estate Im going to assume the co executors is going to retain Counsel to represent the estate in the action the Government is going to file against them What the probate Court reviews is the expenses of probate administration part of which includes whether its paid to estate counsel in this instance the firm of Kellerhauls right Before me I have a motion for approval of Kellerhauls Ferguson Kroblin PLLC Interim payment application Number in which they set out which they are seeking fees where they provided to the estate in the administration of the probate estate from August to October 31st of They are seeking for this Court to approve those Proba ST PB fees Those are the fees that this Court has before it where they are required to set out the date time and service provided Now on review of these fees which was provided to the Court by Order they had to submi to the Court Upon my review of these fees Im going to deny your motion for approval of these fees Number this Court does not enter interim orders for fees because then it requires the Court to be keeping an accounting system of what fees have been paid or not paid This is three months August th to October 31st of Also in your fee affidavit Counsel is to provide date time service provided When I opened what is termed a pre-bill the bills are seriously redacted I as the Officer charged with reviewing this fee affidavit to determine if the fees are reasonable cannot determine what services were provided by your law firm in the probate administration Lets begin September 23rd of attention to--redacted Reviewed redacted What was reviewed Legal research Pr obate and preparation of--redacted Telephone conference with Co-Counsel reviewed redacted There are numerous redactions How do I know was this work necessary for the probate administration customary that the Court would find needed for probate You dont provide the services provided ATTORNEY KROBLIN And Your Honor we would be happy to submit an un-redacted version for in-camera review The reason it was redacted is because we believe that it contained attorney-client privilege information that we didnt believe was appropriate to waive So Your Honor we submitted it in a redacted form and we were going to request what the Court wanted once we got some guidance on how the Court wanted to proceed on fee applications to submit an in-camera un-redacted version THE COURT Even if I wanted to approve this motion I couldnt I dont have information I dont know what you did on behalf of the estate because its struck out How is it that I dont understand rob a te PB attorney-client privilege research on probate procedures and you know what that is your decision You understand why I am not go i ng to approve this motion for interim fees a this time by your law firm ATTORNEY KROBLIN Your Honor if I may I understand the Courts ruling and I think we filed a motion for reconsideration on the interim payment of fees We believe i has been done in the past in states weve represented THE COURT Im not saying it has not been done I said this Court does not enter interim fee orders Th i Cour does not enter interim fee orders ATTORNEY KROBLIN Okay Your Honor We respectful will request to file a motion brief consideration on tha ruling but I understand your ruling THE COURT You can do that ATTORNEY KROBLIN Thank you THE COURT And Im going to tell you doing this cursive review I picked up one page November of I see one Pr oba te 9-PB attorney hours in one day Right ATTORNEY KROBLIN Yes Your Honor THE COURT You understand that is the kind of now that is what comes before me and I can sit down and say I see this probate file I know whats required to be filed and done in a probate I have seen the attorneys and that is why it is the probate fees that are reviewed by this Court and I can ook and say well what could an attorney have done for hours just one day one attorney--this is August of for hours Thats why the Court reviews the probate fees or the fees generated for probate admin i stration So this motion for approval for Kellerhauls is denied without prejudice at this point in time ATTORNEY KROBLIN Thank you ATTORNEY SM I TH Your Honor one of the concerns that we have with regard to preserving the estate assets is the same concern that the Court just raised I understand the Courts position pursuant to Probate ST your reading of Virgin Islands law as to the attorney fees outside of the probate petition or the probate estate that would not require consideration by this Court but to the extent that even in this initial accounting there are literally no vouchers nothing to support THE COURT And I will bring that up I will bring that up when we get there I know they filed the quarterly accounting and I have a note that the quarterly accounting is deficient ATTORNEY SMITH Significantly so Your Honor THE COURT And when co-executors file deficient quarterly accountings or are not doing their accounting work as the Court requires the Court has a process in which the Court can remove the co-executors or in some way impose a penalty on the co-executors The testator in his will provided for these co-executors to be paid executors fees If the Court were to find the co-executors dilatory in their duties the Court could reduce those fees or not award any rob a te fees So there are ways the Court can deal with co-executors or administrators who the Court does not believe is completing or fulfilling their fiduciary duties but we are not at that point as yet Concerning the motions for Trotman Saun ers and Steptoe Johnson he Court does not believe it needs to approve those fees Those attorneys are being hired to represent the estate in the civil proceedings These matters are not before the Court The co-executors have been charged with their fiduciary duties to preserve and protect the estate and that means taking on litigation determining if they need to hire Counsel The only Counsel this Court reviews the application of is probate Counsel and then in your quarterly accounting everything be set forth as to what is being expended Persons can raise objections Okay Have we dealt with the fee Ap ATTORNEY KROBLIN Understood THE COURT Okay Now whats left before the Court--well you know what Lets Pr oba 9-PB deal with the quarterly accounting that was filed because then based again on how I put things in categories the last category remaining will be this claims program right Concerning the first quarterly accounting that was fi ed with the Court on August 31st of Counsel again as the Government have pointed out the items isted the need to be determined--it says determine by appraisal 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A yEv o?o rJ3w B?m6?r Ɛg tA mB I sצ Q2 V?B6?Q hń5 nE?D?Xl?d 0P?Ap 4Нg U٧m?ˡⰐ Yz??K h?q tud Ȯe?G ߚ?f3 i cUu?b?s ZF?r Rq??ɓ r?ә??L q2 kn?R X0O 8p T??x?G BΖ쪆 Ah N?Ijw??L 4W?IC y5S Vϴ?v H?Q M?o1 Ek vE fG?6 s?Tž_ bR o?k p.??nتհ?b F??a A FB?eU??q?Ѱ I Ę?h??Y L??g?q 1g?E JL w??T I s?v g?c?Ή?n S?K y0 eZSـ DF1tk?t?w9!??H cu 7U YB?E mm ߐ-?xEӒqh?A s??w?Zx?K6 ć??2fv Pp??Л?Q?:u-?mo ðӨ P?N qئ J?x g?vT Ak rn 6?Hxu?c f?x oP??fL?ɼ??S?;?KPl z?4jlQCEf??j q?I Y?Z ZAZ?z?g Cb a i??h??ket?T EH??tΏ,??m իS ϗ?B hЁA?V?xA ȻJ o?6B 8k K?wB ջf?uI?z G?nJ et?NQz SN fv M?P6 9ѹ?A?a?S?w Py kL eX7 sGZ L??tĔh?R?s?a?D?0 kd?B?B??A?հ A Yz?P F?2cQ??B nl l??u l?J ϩ??jl x??sƱ?Ű H8?pK ŶH t?Ҫ?c?H d??x r?N M;?o 5rt x?lg Ps S24P L?g?d K?M X?YO ٸ??D a?y Gk UU N?L ԃZ O4閬?2?Nܩ a??M RQ 8Cd ᜰ?Z rO;v?BY z?у۴?,cQ wR i hz?n nҭ/T zJ?R?k?yZv?O?r?1 Probate ST PB-0 ATTORNEY BLUM Correct THE COURT Let me get there Funeral expenses I guess this is to the home it doesnt say what entity Usually you would have then the supporting invoice ATTORNEY BLUM Your Honor to the extent that the vouchers are insufficient we will be happy to re-submit THE COURT Right The expenditures specifically by that Rule provides every expenditure or other disposition of assets must be supported by proper documentation So right Co-Executors might have issued a check and then I see the check redacted as to who the check may have been made payable to you and no supporting documentation as to why the checks are issued That is ust one example Its very hard for the Cour then to determine if these are probate related or just i fiable expenditures by the estate And I think that is the Governments objection the objection the Government has ATTORNEY BLUM Your Honor we believe when we prepared the vouchers that the robate bank statements would be sufficient Obviously the cancel check are difficult read and probably THE COURT Okay you agree with me I thought it was just me ATTORNEY BLUM No its difficult for me as well but wed ask that we do need to redact account numbers which I assume is not an issue for the Court so long as it provides proper THE COURT Well you know what ATTORNEY BLUM detail as THE COURT Im going tell you this about ATTORNEY BLUM to the payees THE COURT Sorry not to over-speak you ATTORNEY BLUM Its all right THE COURT At some point you are going to need to provide those account numbers because of the final adjudication That is what we are adjudicatin if these accounts are still in existence ATTORNEY BLUM We will do so to that extent at the end fine Pr oba te PB THE COURT To the end hats ATTORNEY BLUM We are just concerned about security with respect to this particular decedent THE COURT Thats fine I mean the only payee I can read here is the Government of the Virgin Is ands on these checks That is the only payee I can see there I can follow the electronic fund transfers say I guess to Verizon ADT and I guess may be just saying theres ongoing with Verizon whatever is needed for that but some of these others I cant even see the amount So as far as this Courts quarterly accounting when would you be able to provide an appraisal as to the personal property listed ATTORNEY BLUM We are still in the process Your Honor of hiring appraisers There are a lot of very valuable assets in this estate and personal property that was owned by the decedent or his companies I?o?lea ҋ域 A?m?M nx??M Ra??ع Qn D?QU jY3 L?/a O?x?x?-U p??X CB8 Q?V 7ض d?j XC B?y9 Y?W9?x _nC ݞb 9hڰ o?Cl LV?Ú X?it C?s a Ve h-?Fq mX l?4ߖ A qQ?w O鐀 F2 yd Qo??L7 Pr obat ST Based on Your Honors ruling earlier we will re-evaluate to the extent to which any of the personal property may have been owned by an entity but to the extent that they were owned by the decedent we are dealing with some valuable antiques and valuable jewelry and a lot of assets in a lot of places that we have located but we still are having to employ appropriate appraisers to take care of that We are in the process and we will continue to do so THE COURT Attorney Smith ATTORNEY SMITH Yes Your Honor Ariel Smith on behalf of the Government of the Virgin Islands In addition to the concerns that have been previously raised with regard to the lack of vouchers supporting the checks Id like to draw the Courts attention to in particular the page that states--let me see if I can get it correct here--Your Honor it says statement of decreases due to sales liquidation and payment of expenses THE COURT What page ATTORNEY SMITH It would be when you look for the one that says Schedule rob a it purports to be I guess an indication of expenses After you go to Schedule you go to the third page in The pages are not numbered so its difficult for us THE COURT Yes its very difficult Guide me again Attorney Blum are you there I have the Certificate of Service ATTORNEY SMITH The Schedule which is a statement of income collected THE COURT Yes ATTORNEY SMITH Okay The next page after that was to be Schedule THE COURT Statement of decreases due to sales liquidati on and payment of expenses Okay ATTORNEY SMITH If you go to the third page in of that so that first page is Schedule and the second page and then you get to the third page THE COURT Yes ATTORNEY SMITH And this of course Your Honor we have not had an opportunity since we literally received this Probate by mail yesterday afternoon at clock when the other parties who are apart of the case received theirs by email earlier that day so we did not even get the courtesy of a hand delivery or an e-mail but notwithstanding that in looking at that you see two expenses one for twelve million dollars to Southern Country International Limited another one for million to Southern Country International Limited From what I understand these are not attorneys so Im not sure why they would be getting checks that total fifteen million five hundred dollars Theres no explanation for it with regard to Schedule which is a couple of pages later and again Your Honor this is just a very quick review we see theres a statement of creditors claims that they say have been presented allowed and paid Now deferring to the Courts interpretation of VIC that relates to attorneys fees I would want to know what would be the authority for the executors to pay what they have even classified as creditors claims without the authority of this Court Claims Probate THE COURT The V.I Statute ATTORNEY SMITH Well I understand that THE COURT You asked a question ATTORNEY SMITH Right THE COURT Claims presented to the executors are examined and if approved are paid by the co-executor If rejected then they come before the Court ATTORNEY SMITH Yes Your Honor,but I see three of these a number of these claims are debt claims but there is a specific claim which is to the Epstein Virgin Islands Foundation doing business as Enhanced Education where is the invoice or whatever to support that THE COURT That is why I think I just talked to Attorney Blum and he indicated that he will provide the documentation Just like you I got this first quarterly accounting yesterday Just like you I picked it up and said it does not provide the information necessary for the Court to determine if these expenditures are proper Pr Qb at ST expenditures I told Attorney Blum the rules require the documentation to be attached So now he knows He has to amend this first quarterly accounting needs to be amended to provide the documentation to explain what has been paid And that is all I can do at this point ATTORNEY SMITH I understand that Your Honor I am just concerned about what wou appear to be a course of conduct Thats all I would just say that matter THE COURT Okay and now you are going to be copied on al the quarterly account i ngs The Government has now fi ed its iminal Activity Lien Not i ce I be li eve on he estate So the estate now knows this affects everythi going forward Attorney um ATTORNEY BLUM Jus to re-con irm Your Hono we will amend the accounting and to the extent that there are issues what we would suggest he Court is that we could have a separate hearing with respect to approva of the accounting if i at PS necessary THE COURT Well the accounting is not approved as yet You just continue to submit your accounting but you need to have Attorney Smith is correct twelve million dollars I rnean you know what Given the size of this estate maybe thats not significant Its still twelve million dollars to Southern Country International Limited with no information ATTORNEY BLUM And the short explanation Your Honor is there was a mistake in deposit that was made and this was the reimbursement of that THE COURT Reimbursement So this money came back ATTORNEY BLUM It came back yes I mean you can see THE COURT Where ATTORNEY BLUM Right in the same spot you were looking at THE COURT A check You know what ATTORNEY BLUM Two point six came in and came in and came out and Pr bat ST THE COURT You are right and then it became its less ATTORNEY BLUM Yes and that was one point eight THE COURT But you see ATTORNEY BLUM You need more information Your Honor We understand THE COURT If the documents were attached it would have explained it You are right following this it went in and came bac ATTORNEY BLUM Right It was because of a mistake as to where the monies went and that is why it was corrected Your Honor well provide that detail with the amended quarterly accountings THE COURT Because its required ATTORNEY BLUM Of course THE COURT It is required By the probate rules its required Anything else concerning the quarterly accounting and all quarterly accountings going forward ATTORNEY SMITH Your Honor I would just ask Ariel Smith Government of obate ST PB the Virgin Islands I would just ask that we be able to brief the issues as they come up because again we have not had a real opportunity to do more than a cursory review of it and wed like to be able to do that so any concerns that we have with regard to the first accounting which the Court has not approved wed like an opportunity THE COURT We dont approve the accounting The attorney has said he is going to--and you raised concern he is going to amend his quarterly accounting ATTORNEY SMITH Your Honor could you inquire as to when we would be able to expect that THE COURT He is going to amend his quarterly accounting and timely file it as he is required to file quarterly accountings every three months ATTORNEY SMITH Well no I understand that Your Honor but to the extent that the first accounting had some issues is it going to be amended in a short period of time before the second accounting or is it going to be simply amended in the second Pro ate Sl 9-PB accounting I think we would want to have some clarification on that THE COURT Attorney Blum ATTORNEY BLUM Well the latest would be by the second quarterly accounting THE COURT Thats what Im saying quarterly accountings from the date of the appointment every three months thereafter ATTORNEY BLUM Well to keep it straight well amend this one and file the next one and if we can file the amended version of this sooner than the second one we shall THE COURT You know Attorney Smith ATTORNEY SMITH Yes Your Honor THE COURT Probate may be different than other matters that you have bee involved with Okay You have ogive the time for the co-executors to gather the information to attach it Now through Counsel the co-executors are aware of whats required If they were not aware before they are now aware of how to file a quarterly accounting and what documentations need to be attached rob at ST PB Right Rule And the consequences of failing to file your quarterly accountings as set out in Rule in which I explained they can be brought before the Court on a show cause Attorney Smith and you can move for this Court to cause them to come before the Court to show cause if any why they should not be punished for contempt of Court That is always an option ATTORNEY SMITH Thank you Your Honor THE COURT Okay All right The claims that have been filed the Voluntary Claims Resolut i on Program and the Criminal Activity Lien notice filed by the Government Attorney Blum ATTORNEY BLUM I would like to call on attorney Andrew Tomback to address the Court and present testimony with respect to the Voluntary Claims Program if it please Your Honor THE COURT But you know what I dont mean and I see Attorney Smith I understand that Voluntary Claims Resolution Pro ate ST-19-PB Program is what i being proposed by the estate to address these claims that are going to be filed in multiple jurisdictions numerous of them pending in New York right ATTORNEY BLUM Correct Most of them THE COURT Most of them in New York Theres also in Florida ATTORNEY BLUM And Minnesota THE COURT And Minnesota right ATTORNEY BLUM And we expect more THE COURT And we expect more Let me summarize it and everyone listen and if anybody has an objection to what I am going to say then you can raise it How I read all the persons who have filed claims through Counsel present here in this courtroom they have the claimants have no objection the Voluntary Claims Resolution Program Their concern is how much money is to be expended to set up this program I think it was Attorney Benham is he still here Do you see him in the Pr obate a ooe courtroom who raised those concerns and said what are you going to do with th expenditures for rents paying salaries just the cost of setting it up That was his concern am I correct Attorney Benham ATTORNEY BENHAM Yes,Your Honor Can I approach THE COURT Yes Well you know what cause Im just doing a summary and I ju st wanted you to confirm and th en I can le you approach to supplement Who opposed the claims program is the Government ATTORNEY BLUM Right THE COURT Because the Government Attorney Smith list en and see if Im correct because the People have filed this Criminal Activity Lien Notice and this lien notice is against the Estate of Jeffrey Epstein Jeffrey Epstein the Trust Plan LLC Great St James LLC Nautilus Inc Hyperion Air LLC and Poplar Inc And readi ng whats under the Statute the Statute provides that on the filing of this lien this is Title Virgin Pr oba Islands Code Section This lien shall commence and attach as of the time of the filing with the Criminal Activity Lien Notice and shall continue thereafter until expiration termination or release The lien created in favor of the Government of the territory of the Virgin Islands shall be superior to and prior to the interest of any other persons in the personal or real property or beneficial interest in if the interest is acquired subsequent to the filing of the notice So that all being said with The People having filed their Criminal Activity Lien hasnt it put everything on hold ATTORNEY BLUM It should not Your Honor THE COURT Te ll me why not ATTORNEY BLUM The reason is that the probate code itself which is not addressed in the Governments papers state very clearly and I can find the cite for you if you need it THE COURT Yes ATTORNEY BLUM that the Pro bate administration expenses of the estate have priority virtually priority over everything else the estate needs to be administered The problem that the executors will have is these liens are in fact defective which we believe they should not be and we will be asking Your Honor to either dismiss them or we will do so before Judge Dunston in the other matter under which theyve filed the Complaint With out that we question whether we can expend anything We believe that that is not correct under Virgin Islands probate Code and that it is Your Honor who controls in every respect the co-executors actions with respect to what they expend and what they dont expend and what they can not expend and that is the point that we will make in papers when we file them with respect to those liens THE COURT Because now theres a question because I have here I know youre pointing to Title Virgin Islands Code Section preference in payments of claims and charges Is that what you are talking about Probate ST PB ATTORNEY BLUM That is correct THE COURT In administration funeral charges taxes expenses debts preferred by law debts which is the debt of the deceased were a lien upon his property of any rights or interest,debts to employees all other claim against the estate Where would this lien this Criminal Activity Lien fall because they by the statute VIC if Im reading it everything has been locked down ATTORNEY BLUM That was our first reading as well Your Honor THE COURT Okay ATTORNEY BLUM And that is our concern with respect to that THE COURT Except may be for the basic administration of the estate but as far as it goes to settling claims because if that is okay the estate can continue to function ATTORNEY BLUM Thank you THE COURT I have no problems with that If the estate has to pay taxes--Attorney Smith the estate has to pay Pl a te 9-PB taxes it pays its taxes right ATTORNEY SMITH That is correct Your Honor employees THE COURT If the estate has to ATTORNEY SMITH Pay its THE COURT Thank you Pay its employees if the estate has to pay its attorneys other than estate Counsel because the estate now has attorneys who have to come in and represent him in this matter Now this civil I know ATTORNEY SMITH Im not happy about that THE COURT I know you a not happy with that civil forfeiture matter but what i seems to me that the estate cannot do the estate cannot pay claims cannot pay these claims that have been filed by the persons that may be coming out of New York whether they get a judgment out of New York or whether they come in to this Claims Resolution Program that is how Im reading that that by this the Government has said stop because and I read that in part of your il ing because I I ob a te PB the Government is concerned that you could then start this program start entering settlements paying out settlements and then when the Government comes theres nothing at all ATTORNEY BLUM The program will be recommending settlement It will be approving settlements tha will be paid by the estate They will need to be paid if in fact we adopt the program The problem is that if we do not proceed to the program it will tend to waste estate assets because as Attorney Kroblin refered to earlier we wi now have to go much heavier into litigation that are already pending We will need to expend additional expenses on attorneys fees and other expenses relating to those litigations especially with respect to discovery since theres at least of them that will be a very large amount Since at least the claimants who have spoken up appear to be in favor of the program that is why we would like to get the program approved quickly as soon as Your Honor is prepared to do so And then we still Pro bat ST have to deal with the liens That is a separate issue I might prevent the actua payment but if we can promptly deal with the liens even after we have started the program that would be to the estates advantage because we would not have this additional litigation expense and once we get to the point of actually having to pay out the settlements via the program or otherwise other settlements that would be the way we think that we should be proceeding THE COURT You see Attorney Blum how you described it that was my thought process That if you have the settlement resolution program quickly I mean fairly quickly dealt with because if not if you dont use that program then what you have is these multiple lawsuits proceeding attorneys being retained to represent the estate in these actions and judgments being entered but you have no control of and the judgment will have to be paid whether its a settlement through this program or a judgment But my question is right now by what The People have filed and you said that Proba was your initial reading of it what has changed ATTORNEY BLUM My initial concern Im concerned THE COURT Well that is my concern too ATTORNEY BLUM that this Court and the Government feel that we shouldnt be spending anything on virtually anything You have already confirmed that we can administer the estate for which we appreciate that but part of the administration of the estate is also dealing with these claims THE COURT Yes I know but now these claims are going to be paid from where ATTORNEY BLUM They are going to be paid from estate assets no doubt THE COURT And The People have just put a lien and the lien provides that nothing could be paid out of those assets I can understand that you need to do it today and I think Attorney Smith understand that but their concern is that you cannot pay claims and you cannot set up this program ob ate 8O Attorney Smith then what would you have the estate do Then the estate is going to go into New York and Minnesota and Florida and wherever else and having to retain Counsel for all these lawsuits ATTORNEY BLUM And Your Honor THE COURT Yes ATTORNEY BLUM These claimants will be denied timely compensation which is one of the things that the co executors very much wish to avoid We wish to compensate them promptly They were interested in having this program go forward and that is what we would like to do ATTORNEY SMITH Your Honor first of all the program and I mean let me go back Let me go to the podium Your Honor Ariel Smith on behalf of the Government of the Virgin Islands I think Virgin Islands law is clear as to what the Criminal Activity Lien is I dont think from my estimation theres any dispute but beyond that I think that theres a misunderstanding as to what the Government is saying Besides the Criminal Activity Probate ST Lien Notice we have stated an opposition to the plan as proposed and what we did in our opposition is we indicated the areas in which we have concerns about the plan as proposed One of the areas that we were concerned with is that the plan as proposed presumes to exonerate other people besides the estate of Jeffrey Epstein ATTORNEY BLUM Your Honor we havent had a chance to present our motions yet and she is providing all THE COURT You know what Yes And I have no idea what you are speaking of You know what Attorney Smith if I could the estate was going to provide the Court with more information concerning this plan this morning ATTORNEY SMITH Okay and to that end whatever is provided this morning we have no information as to it and the information that was provided in the opposition we received yesterday we have not had an opportunity to reply to it because we just saw it so it might be premature And finally--and this is the Pr obate ST last thing Im going to say with regard to this until Im called again but we believe that setting up this plan without the Court having a full inventory and a complete accounting that has vouchers and all the other deficiencies that were missing from this accounting would be premature THE COURT Okay So let the Court say this Im not going to make any decision on this plan whether creating this plan or it shouldnt be created or should be put in place this morning because I have no information as to the plan because in the submissions from the estate they set forth I think several times that full information will be brought to the Court this morning Im going to allow you then to pro ide tha informa ion Then Im going allow Counsel present to make their comments arguments for or against the plan but there is going to be no decision this morning because I do not have full information as to this plan Then Im going to have to say if this Court were to structure set up allow oba first of all do I even need to be the one to allow the co-executors to establish the plan moving estate assets and if thats the way I need to know how much estate assets are you going to move how does that import with the Criminal Activity Lien Notice that the People have filed is there anyway for me to get around it can the two sides with the People work that out and say so much can go into the plan Yes we dont want to affect claimants but we also have to know we have a claim The People have filed their claim And you know for none of the claimants before this Court do I have numbers right There are no numbers so I cant even say set aside this amount There are no numbers Everything is you know speculation a judgment were going into court but there are no numbers which is unusual because when claims come before the Court a claim by the Statute that is how we determine claims It sets out the specific amounts ATTORNEY BLUM If we might at this time I would like Attorney Tomback to rob at.e provide the Court via witnesses with much of the information that you are inquiring about and that the Government is inquiring about and at the end of that presentation then Your Honor can ask whatever questions THE COURT Testimony Are you going to have written documents ATTORNEY SMITH That i my concern al so ATTORNEY BLUM Yes THE COURT I thought it to be written documents with how much is going to be expended for rents money not testimony ATTORNEY BLUM It would be both Your Honor ATTORNEY SMITH Your Honor I think this is part of the Governments concern and this is Ariel Smith again for the record The Estate needs to be forthright with the Court about every aspect of whatever i is they are proposing even though again we maintain its premature because if they havent at this juncture they are making this plan proposal but they havent even done the basics which is to give Probate ST the Court an inventory and based on its motion they have until March 2nd approximately to provide this inventory so to even get into a plan without an inventory so the Court knows essentially the lay of the land is extremely premature and then to proposed the plan before the Court without any writings without any opportunity to vet it properly its highly irregular THE COURT If I understand it Attorney Tomback is going to provide the Court with how much he believes how much the plan would cost Am I correct ATTORNEY TOMBACK Your Honor Andrew Tomback on behalf of the executors I have been admitted pro hac vice I know I can do this later but my oath is here if Your Honor wants it THE COURT Yes Please file it in the proper way into the Court ATTORNEY TOMBACK Its ou intent to have Your Honors permission to call three witnesses The first witness Jordana Feldman and they all will be supported by documents documents which have been available obate in the public domain some of which have been filed by the Court and available to the Attorney General that describes the program in grea detail The reason for the program why it makes sense to the victims why it makes sense I think for everybody in terms of the estate not to be litigating in various places and spending money on litigation Quite frankly I think that if the Attorney General hears from these witnesses I can tell you about it in a moment but if the Attorney General hears from these witnesses I believe that well address every concern that the Attorney General has raised including whether i fact we can pick a particular number as a number of dollars that Your Honor at this time Your Honor can say okay that is the right number because we dont have the whole number of victims and so forth and I would defer quite frankly Im just a lawyer but the people Im going to call Jordana Feldman who was the Administrator of the fund has tremendous experience This is the first witness we would Pro ate ST like to call with respect to that Your Honor The second witness is Ken Feinberg Mr Feinberg from the beginning of his career involving Agent Orange and working with the Judge in the United States to solve what seemed to be an intractable problem has done plans like this more than any person alive not just in the United States but anywhere And then the third i tness is my colleague Mr Weiner who also represents the estate who would briefly testify regarding why the estate itself is going to be harmed a if the Attorney General lien as you put it makes everything grind to a halt not only the victims or the alleged victims or the claimants whatever you want to call them but also the estate Id just like the opportunity to put them forward I think it will clarify a great eal for Your Honor the A torney General I think in fairness to the people and the Court who dont have an opportunity to speak because they are not admitted to hear how we be ieve this wi help people who Prob at alleged that theyve been harmed people who are claimants THE COURT But there is still the concern If I understand it the People are the only ones opposing the establishment of this program right as proposed but there is nothing proposed ATTORNEY TOMBACK Your Honor we can bridge the enormous gap because the Attorney Generals understanding and expression in our papers of what is proposed is not what is proposed and I think if we hear from the witnesses well understand from the witnesses what is really proposed and I think the Attorney General can have every opportunity to cross examine them ATTORNEY SMITH Your Honor but we are not prepared to do that today Number THE COURT You know that is true You told me because I did not know that you were going to have all these people here ATTORNEY SMITH And so we are not prepared to do that today because we Proba havent had an opportunity to vet this question but more importantly we still havent found out from the executor what does this program cost Do you have those numbers That is the preliminary question We can hea all about you know all the touchy-feeley whatever THE COURT Okay Attorney Smith Lets hear from some of the other attorney representing Attorney Benham do you want to come forward or any other attorney wishing to speak in this matter Just identify yourself ATTORNEY TOMBACK By the way Your Honor I just want to make one th ing clear just so Your Honor understands I think Your Honor knows this but we re here now and I understand your concerns but speed is of the essence I think that the victims or the claimants counsel will speak to that But we made our motion with respect to that Your Honor on November 14th We then filed again on December 13th The Attorney General i late to the game right so she says shes not prepared but she wants Probate to stop us THE COURT But listen you filed your motion to establish the program right without ATTORNEY TOMBACK That is all we want to do now Your Honor THE COURT Yes but you want me just carte blanche go and establish the program You never gave the Court any numbers We didnt know what numbers we were dealing with We didnt have a quarterly accounting We didnt have an inventory Thats part of the objections the People are making and now ATTORNEY TOMBACK Your THE COURT let me finish--so dont tell me cause you told me when you filed your motion I know when you filed your motion but I was not prepared to rule because there was no information for this Court to rule on that motion So now if I understand it and then motions or filing to the Court during the course of the week said the Court will be given this information at the hearing Well I didnt know what kind of information you Probate ST were coming with at the hearing Now you say you are coming with witnesses My thing and I specifically said Attorney Benham made one of the most salient arguments no objections to the plan but what is the cost of the plan Everybody just want to know what you are going to do to set this up And that is what I want to hear Let me hear from other counsel please sir ATTORNEY TOMBACK Sure ATTORNEY FOSTER Good morning Your Honor Sean Foster Our firm represents probably two dozen of the victims probably the majority of the victims that are going to be filing claims against the estate and we are absolutely in favor of this program We think its a great program that will provide redress to the victims without the need for protracted litigation and we feel that to derail that process at this stage would not be in the best interest of those victims We dont disagree that more information is required and I think that why we are here today to get more information so that we can move forward and support that Pr obat ST program for our clients That is where we stand on that position Your Honor THE COURT Thank you Attorney Foster ATTORNEY FOSTER Youre welcome ATTORNEY DAMOUR Good morning Your Honor Kevin DAmour We represent five different victims I would echo what Mr Foster just said but I want to make it clear that if we fail to establish a program that is cognizant of the harm thats caused to these victims its going to be far more discriminatory than what the Government is trying to propose or object to I think if we go forward with this program we are going to see great results and I think we are going to have a much better outcome if we can go forward with this program as soon as possible THE COURT Thank you Attorney Benham ATTORNEY BENHAM Good morning Your Honor John Benham on behalf of one claimant Jane Doe I assume at some point during our proceedings today we are going to roba get to the issue of how the creditors are going to proceed in this by pseudonym or however but as far as the voluntary compensation program as we stated in our papers that were filed on December 23rd we dont oppose the creation of the program but we dont know what the program is We dont know in particular the expenses that are going to be entailed in just creating the program in the first place We dont know and we still dont know even after the first quarterly accounting what is in the estate whether or not the program intends to divulge making all of the estate assets available I think the estate has responded that yes all of the assets I believe they have said that all of the assets are available because under the terms of the will the executors have to pay all of the debts in all of the claims that are approved and only after that the rest and residue of the estate and assets will be poured into the trust that was created under the will At least that is the way I understood it ob ate ST THE COURT Except or now what the Government has done ATTORNEY BENHAM That is a new development Your Honor THE COURT Yes That is what I am saying That is what has now maybe thrown everything and I got notice of this January of right That is a whole different something to look at What does that do to what it may bring to the proceedings or persons going under ATTORNEY BENHAM I didnt get notice of that until last Friday Your Honor because the Government didnt serve anybody except for the estate as far as I can tell so as far as these proceedings theres no so Im not here to address whether or not the CICO lien is as all encompassing as the Government claims it is which basically freezes every single asset of the estate and say no you cant pay anybody I would understand that is what they say the effec of the CICO lien is I would be if the Court wishes us and the other creditors who have filed E?.?yɒ E2n Okޡ?"?Sh m?H 0Wh Ac U?I qߌ-?J J?.W?!lS ݝ?BD f??_?dIğ?M?UP q2Mh??K?S x?c?Q nd U:Q Q?a?Ϙ uR LH E?c k_ _?p?fA l?F?f?gJc g??Ly z?C C?U K?A ԘW n?EB ÞmQ R?k a?Vj?ms 8r?O?XZ R??Y 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Ű?O?z?jh?9D t?IC:?j H?GϾ Jn?s HĂU?M Qǘg?M?D??EZ?p?x?10l T?B:M?g??I J?Z??T??nr?ڋ t?ve k?J j?X?F M?Tݨ,?qz?Q py??J fw??u S?M gN ƮX VYJ l?Nզ op q?ؾ Prob ate ST claims in this matter to address that I would suggest that perhaps a briefing schedule should be established on that particular issue THE COURT I think that may be appropriate and the People then could respond because that is now the quandary I believe the Court is in because now I have what maybe going on in another court I have the lien Theres nothing else but it tells me a lien against all and it lists specific assets and it begins with the estate of Jeffrey Epstein so if all these things the shares in all these corporations is sitting in that estate that is why I say does that then stop everything ATTORNEY SMITH Your Honor THE COURT Let me hear from the other Counsel ATTORNEY SMITH I just wanted to clarify one thing The claims that are represented here are the same kind of claims that the Government has Their claim is not with regard to the lien itself1 but the nature of the claims Its the same exact type of Probate claim for those who are in New York courts or other courts So theres no distinction between the claims that the Government has in terms of the nature of the claims and claims that are presented by these other claimants in this case THE COURT I dont know I just know people have filed claims claims of sexual assault claims without any monies attached to it indicating that they have filed them in a Court of law and saying maybe they can resolve them through this settlement probate ATTORNEY SMITH And also one of those same type of THE COURT Youre saying sexual trafficking ATTORNEY SMITH Well the point Im making Your Honor is that their claims had no numbers nor do all claims and they are all filed in court THE COURT And I said that and everybody has filed their claims here with no numbers ATTORNEY SMITH Right Probate ST PB THE COURT So if I were to say those are claims those claims dont comport with what the Statute requires but Im allowing people at some point to fix numbers on them theyre coming in as claims If Im just sitting strictly on probate and just reading what probate requires it requires you to have affixed a number Nobody has affixed a number but I can understand why you cant fix a number cause you are just to me preserving a claim that you say I may perfect somewhere by getting may get a judgment and then if I dont or I dont want to try to get this judgment Im willing to resolve this matter through this voluntary settlement program Correct Right Everyone ATTORNEY FOSTER Yes I think setting up the program is different than paying out under the program We want to move forward with setting something up we are not talking about paying out That is different THE COURT Attorney Foster that was one of the things and the note I have 1s thats what it 1s You just want to have this program in place You just want them to start Probate ST talking with the alleged victims and maybe then you just have matters are settled but you still know I have to wait for whatever is going to pan out here with this CICO lien ATTORNEY FOSTER But I think that program will also he flesh out what those numbers are for each claimant cause each claimant is very different THE COURT Okay Sir Let me hear from final Counsel ATTORNEY CHANCO Douglas Chanco here for the record Your Honor to build on Attorney Benhams argument adopt this Court has kind concerns already so I will The setup of that Id like to of touched on our be brief the fund not lS what my claimant Araoss issue is Its the fact now that weve been hearing today of plaintiffs lawsui and the funding of any sort of claims program and we just--even with the fact that Your Honor stressed I have not been able to provide a number as no other claimant has I would cite to the filing on January 31st of this year in Schedule My clients case is the first one listed on Pr obate ST Schedule it is a New York State case It is proceeding It is not one that may possibly be filed or is intended to be filed It is going forward at this time and her New York Counsel 1s present here so we would just ask the Court to again take concern as to funding of any amount from the estate for the payment claims at this point as we have a valid claim to present and preserve at this point ATTORNEY WESTFALL Your Honor may we be heard THE COURT Yes State your name for the record please ATTORNEY WESTFALL Melody Westfall Your Honor we would ask that the estate be allowed to resolve the claims Your Honor ruled earlier today that the estate would be allowed to settle some claims and we would urge you to allow the THE COURT No I dont reca ll that I said the estate could pay its attorneys excep probate attorneys ATTORNEY WESTFALL Well we would argue that the lien applies after what Probate claims are paid This is about the victims Its about the peoples whose lives are ruined and we are very in favor of the voluntary program The victims desperately need help It pressing and we would urge the Court to hear from the administrators and perhaps we can resolve this today Thank you Your Honor THE COURT Thank you Have I heard from all the attorneys representing persons who may be fi ing or have filed claims against the estate ATTORNEY BOURNE-VANNECK Good morning Your Honor Richard Bourne Vanneck on behalf of the claimant Tela Davis I would second the issues that have been raised by Attorney Benham I thought he did it adequately so that is why I sat back down Thank you THE COUR Thank you So if I understand what the persons here the attorneys representing the claimant what we really just need to get is testimony on the numbers I think everybody says they re in ob at favor of this program Theyre satisfied how the program may be set up We just need to know how much monies we are talking about that would be allotted to this program ATTORNEY SMITH Your Honor I would just state one thing I really just want an opportunity to present our own witnesses I think theres information that we may have that I would like to present to the Court also before the Court can make its final decision THE COURT Im not making a decision I specifically said that Im going to take the testimony because the persons are here to testify ATTORNEY SMITH Okay THE COURT I think I specifically said Im not ruling on this and Im also going to require Counsel to brief the Court on the effects of this lien as to anything how this estate proceeds as far as it wants to set up the claims I understand that the estate just want at this point permission to set up this program That is what I am understanding permission to set up the program Pr oba te Then the question will be and thereafter once the program is set up you go ahead and start to talk to the alleged victims would any settlement then have to wait until resolution of this criminal forfeiture in the civil action Im going to ask Counsel to brief the Court and provide to the Court say within thirty days memorandums of law to assist the Court on that but Im going to allow you to present I think everybody has agreed that at this point they have enough information as to what this program would entail My law clerk Attorney Harrigan did some research on this program and he provided to the Court that this similar program has been done with victims the Archdiocese of Los Angeles with i sexual assault cases So its not a program that has not been used by other persons Its just as I think the estate has said this may be a new one in a probate but it has been done tried tested worked I think we are just Pro a PB-0 here and all Counsel for claimants have said they support the program because they believe it will be a quick resolution for these victims alleged victims rather than having to go to court and testify right in open court and have to present a full claim To me it also has to reduce attorneys fees on both sides significantly Just how much will be set up maybe the Estate can work with the People as to what because its the People the Government is the opposition Thats where your opposition is I have no other opposition but the Government and maybe their mistake is just try to work with the Government with regard to what the Government has filed But Sir just go ahead please I think we can just limit it to what the numbers are Fair enough for everyone in the courtroom ATTORNEY TOMBACK Your Honor with some leeway I th i nk we can focus okay THE COURT Okay ATTORNEY TOMBACK So Ms Feldman will you take the stand please DIRECT EXAMINATION Probate ST By Attorney Tornback Please state your name for the record A Its Jordana Harris Feldman Where do you live A I live in ATTORNEY TOMBACK Sorry Sorry I sorry She should be sworn THE COURT Yes she should be ATTORNEY TOMBACK Shes trustworthy Your Honor THE COURT Well yes Laughter And you do have your pro hac admission May I have it before I allow you let me just at least say I saw that ATTORNEY TOMBACK May I step forward or THE COURT The marshal will take it for you ATTORNEY TOMBACK Thank you sir THE COURT Lets take a ten-minute recess Ten-minute recess Court re-convened Probate ST Good afternoon Before we proceed I need to take care of some matters After I retired to chambers it came to my attention I think I have been free with the Counsel for the claimants to allow them to come forward and make presentations to the Court because this is an unusual situation here this morning But before me I have a motion from the People the Government to intervene as a claimant intervenor in the matter and Im going to deny that the Motion to Intervene Youre here as a claimant And Im assuming that you will file your formal creditors claim You know you face that li en You have the Criminal Activity Lien Notice So that being said also theres a Motion to Intervene filed by Attorney Amour The Court recognize you are a claimant You represent aimants for the estate You may have a claim against the estate Im going to deny the Motion To Intervene also for those claimants represented by Attorney DArnour Is he still present in the court oba st ATTORNEY DAMOUR Yes Your Honor THE COURT Yes you are You have filed claims against the estate You just need to perfect those claims provide the information whether its by judgment or should this voluntary program be established by the Court but as the Court has not now allowed anyone to intervene this matter will proceed just as if it was a regular probate proceeding The estate Counsel is here The Court is here Ill allow you to present the testimony limited to what the Court believe it needs concerning this program Sir UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER Sorry to interrupt but we also had a motion to proceed anonymously for claimants THE COURT With that let me say that proceed in the same name in which you were proceeding in the New York Courts or whatever courts you are filing this assault case It just seems to me that would make it easier because then when you bring your judgment should you have a judgment that comes in as a creditors claim the Court would know what claim it goes with rob ate ST PB-0 So file your claim in the name however you are proceeding in whatever Court you are proceeding in with the sexual assault Fair enough all Counsel So the motion would be persons will then file however you are proceeding under the claim would be filed i the same way Attorney Smith ATTORNEY SMITH I just have one procedural question Your Honor To the extent that youve denied the Governments Motion to Intervene how would we file any response to cause we decided to file the Motion To Intervene in order to be able to file the opposition which has not been formally iled I was just filed as an attachment THE COURT You come in as claimant right so you would be presented before the Court ATTORNEY SMITH Well the motion to intervene was premised on the criminal activity lien and so once we were able to intervene we would then file an opposition as a movant of sorts Im just trying to figure it out procedurally erobate THE COURT Okay Im not leaving you intervene for probate purposes Now you have this civil ATTORNEY SMITH Criminal THE COURT And I dont know what happens over there Once that case has been filed then I guess you would file it and then show the Court why you have to be here making opposition to whatever we have But right now Im not allowing you to ask questions of the person on the stand Do you understand that ATTORNEY SMITH Okay THE COURT Should you go farther there right you have a lien If I understand it thee should then so in of action filed ATTORNEY SMITH It has been filed THE COURT It has been filed Well I dont have it I know there was a lien ATTORNEY SMITH It was attached to the motion THE COURT Not what I have I dont believe exhibits Prob a te ATTORNEY SMITH It has five THE COURT Then once its he and you hear that if you believe this program would affect your claim then you would have a right to file your opposition but Im not going to a ll ow you to be questioning the i tness Do you understand tha ATTORNEY SMITH Okay THE COURT Im not going to allow or when you submit your aim fo low the claim procedures and the executors wil review it whether they approve it or reject guess what Then you move the Court to hold a hearing and then we go i full presentation ATTORNEY SMITH Okay THE COURT Fair enough All right Okay Sir and for the record Attorney ATTORNEY TOMBACK Your Honor I had assistance from your co league here to the lef THE COURT My able law clerk Attorney Harrigan Yes we do have your application for pro hac vice admission that Probate was approved and signed by Justice Cabret January 30th at And we have your oath that was attested by the Clerk of the Court Attorney Handy February 3rd at So you are properly before the Court We will now swear the witness Thereupon JORDANA HARRIS FELDMAN first having been duly sworn was examined and testified as follows DIRECT EXAMINATION By Attorney Tom.back Please state your name A Jordana Harris Feldman Where do you live A New York City Did you come down in St Thomas specifically to testify in this proceeding A Yes And are you familiar with our filing indicating on January 9th in our brief that you would be here to answer questions that the Court may have A Yes And where were you most recently employed Proba ST-19-PB A I worked at the September Victim Compensation Fund And briefly describe that fund for the Court A Its a federal program that was established in the aftermath of the September 11th attack to compensate the families of those who died and people who were injured in the immediate aftermath of the attack What was your position there A I was Deputy Special Master and Director of the New York office How long did you hold that position A I held that position for three years but I worked through the Justice Department and with the program for over ten years in its various iterations beginning in and then when it was re-opened in And did you leave the fund generally your position there to embark on working on this program A Yes And just briefly describe your responsibilities with the fund roba te A I ran our appeals process which afforded any claimant an opportunity to challenge eligibility and compensation determinations if they didnt believe that the decision appropriately accounted for their circumstances I presided over or participated in hundreds of those hearings They were intended both as an opportunity for the claimant to supplement the record and be heard and also for us to acknowledge the traumatic experience that each claimant had been through and the impact that it had on their lives Im going to shorten what I was going to cover with you but have you devoted he bulk of your professional career to mass work or mass aims programs A I have And you have developed a fair amoun of ex ertise at it right A Yes Its de inite a niche practice but this is the kind of claims compensation programs outside of traditional litigation similar to what we do with the September 11th fund determining eligibi ity Probate PB determining compensation figuring out a claims process intended to be expeditious voluntary That is my experience with the program And do you recognize this book that Im holding up A I do Its Mass Claim Resolution Facilities Who is the author A Im a co-author of that book And basically what does the book cover A It provides case studies of mass claims resolutions facilities outside of litigation and offers some practical guidance in navigating the design implementation and administration of those programs ATTORNEY TOMBACK Your Honor I would just like to offer now just to speed us up Ms Feldmans biography Its been distilled to one page ATTORNEY SMITH Your Honor is it possible even though Im not allowed to ask questions that I can see the CD THE COURT Do you an have extra copy Probate ATTORNEY TOMBACK Absolutely Im just putting it on the record Your Honor Im not going to ask any questions I want to move us forward By Attorney Tomback When were you first approached regarding a possible compensation program that related to Mr Epstein A In late September Who first contac ted you A Dan Weiner And did you have conversations and meetings thereafter with the state representative A Yes I ad severa meet in gs by phone and then in person with repres entat ives of the estate And where did those conversations end up in terms of your career A They asked me to serve as a co-designer of the program and also to administer the program once it was up and running Do you know a gentleman named Pr oba te Kenneth Feinberg A I do I know him well How do you know him A Mr Feinberg was my professor in law school in a course about Individual Justice in Mass Torts Context We worked very closely together in the first iteration of the September 11th Victims Compensation Fund We sat on this Mass Claims Commission that resulted in the book that you just offered and hes been a mentor to me through out my professional career Before you took on this new responsibility related to Mr Epstein did you consult with Mr Feinberg A I did And I was pointing backwards is Mr Feinberg in the courtroom here today A Yes sir he is ATTORNEY TOMBACK For the record he is the gentleman waiving to my right THE COURT Good afternoon Sir By Attorney Tomback Did Mr Feinberg have a role in the compensation program Pr a 9-PB A Yes He was also selected to act as a co-designer of the program and helped to implement it And was one of the first things hat you did I sorry There a third person that you worked with Who was that A Camille Biros And the three of you was one of the first things the three of you put together called a mission statement A Yes ATTORNEY TOMBACK If I may offer that Your Honor I dont know what the Courts intention is with numbering things I would call this Number and the Bar Number THE COURT So this lS that would be By Attorney Tomback Let me ask you a few things about the Epstein Victims Compensation Program By the way how did the program get that name A Mr Feinberg Ms Biros and I decided on the title We thought it was Probate important to acknowledge upfront that these were Epstein victims to acknowledge the wrongs that they suffered A And is it a voluntary reprogram It is a voluntary program And explain what you mean by voluntary A It just means that the victims have a choice If they want to resolve their claims in an alternative way outside of the li tigation they can participate No one is required to participate in the program The way that we have designed the proposed design of the program which as you heard was supported by many of the victims is that a claimant could come into the process go through the entire process get a compensation determination and then only at that point would any sort of legal rights be affected or compromised We wouldnt ask that they sign a waiver of release until they had an opportunity to make a more informed decision about whether the compensation thats being offered is attractive and appropriate for them robate ST-19-PB Is it a confidential program as well A Its confidential to the extent that we as the program administrators and my staff and contractors would be protecting the privacy of the victims We wouldnt be sharing any information with the estate or publicly But the confidential requirement is unila,teral It only imposed on us and theres no requirement whatsoever that claimants limit their what information they want to share with whomever they wish you know investigators the public This is an alternative to civil litigation and so we have no intention to interfere with any sort of criminal proceeding Are you familiar with the civil lawsuit that the Attorney General of the United States Virgin Islands filed in the other court A Yes And have you read the Complaint A I have And direct your attention--you probably dont remember this but Ill tell i?V v?I t??w?y??kR?P a TOて P??J 9h LT I?W?o 簬,a8?oQ q?"i?W Aҝ b?mQ yh a ȃ?JL0FD 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for the reasons I just stated Did you contact the Attorney General to correct that error and any other issues that came to your attention in reviewing the Complaint A I did I sent a letter to the Attorney General on January 16th the day after the Complaint was filed not only to correct that mischaracterization but also just to give her some insight into the proposed design of the program I had attached a draft of the protocol that we have developed Mr Feinberg Ms Biros and I had developed and circulated to the Plaintiffs lawyers weeks before I explained to her in the letter the various meetings that we had had with Plaintiffs Counsel to get their input on the draft protocol and seek their recommendations I thought it was important to Pr oba ST shed light on what the proposed design was so that she understood that many of her assumptions about the program were incorrect and had been addressed in the draft protocol ATTORNEY TOMBACK Your Honor Id like to have marked as Exhibit that letter Its dated January Its written by Ms Feldman to the Honorable Denise George Attorney General THE COURT Okay By Attorney Tomback Is that the letter you wrote Ms Feldman to Attorney General George A I dont have a copy ATTORNEY SMITH Your Honor Im not questioning the witness but I do believe th a this goes beyond what the Court was anticipating THE COURT I think Attorney Tomback is going to bring me to what I need to know about the monies I havent heard that setting that up That is really what I want to know I thin we agreed that everybody believes this program is a great program but eb a te ST 9-PB what is going to be the costs of setting up this program ATTORNEY TOMBACK Your Honor the short answer is that the costs definitely justifies the program and we are going to get to the cost but I just want help on one item and you tell me if I should do it or not but I think that while I have Ms Feldman here and quite frankly its wonderful to come down here Its beautiful but Ms Feldman is here and Mr Feinberg is here Id like to close the gap for the Court and so the Attorney General understand the proposed program is not what the Attorney General wrote about It just isnt remotely related to the process that is laid out in her papers Judge theres no live person that the Attorney General represents The Attorney General represents a claim of a client that is historical Ive just been admitted to be pro hac I dont profess to be an expert of the law but I think its clear to everyone in the courtroom that this program needs to go forward to save the estate quite frankly just to address the victims or the claimants robate OO THE COURT Okay ATTORNEY TOMBACK So I just want to put the context there and close the gaps so the Attorney General can have some residual concern that the estate can address and move on and get going THE COURT Okay Continue By Attorney Tomback Did the co-executors or Counsel anyone affiliated with them direct you to write this letter letter A No Whose idea was it to write the A It was my idea Okay And the mission statement that I showed you before Exh i bit Number did you describe the program as a quote non-adversarial alternative to litigation ose front given quote A It does I dont have a copy in of me but I remember writing it Why is non-adversarial important your background and exper ise Pr ob at ST 9-PB A In these kinds of programs you have to remove any sort of adversarial posture or tone I mean the victims are sharing very personal details of their lives about the abuse whatever happened in the aftermath and so they need to be able to feel comfortable that they can share that information without fear of being cross examined or interrogated or that that will be used against them at some later point In your mission statement it also says that the program quote aim to timely resolve close quote claims Why is timeliness important A Its important because its important to the victims I mean the victims are the ones who want this program to move forward They want an option that will expeditiously resolve th ir claims We have made a goal to resolve claims within sixty to ninety days of a complete submission We wanted to make a meaningful alternative to litigation for the victims and as you heard today the victims are in support of allowing this program to move forward rob ate PB The Mission statement also says quote the program offers a quote a process that is sensitive to the experiences and concerns of the claimants and treat them with compassion dignity and respect Why is that important and how do you know that the program is actually going to do that A I know it because I have done it before I mean Mr Feinberg has done it before You know these programs are we find the victims are looking for validation as much as they are for compensation They want someone to acknowledge what they have been through and to be treated in a compassionate and dignified way in the process That is exactly what I have done in the fund And the Mission statement also goes on to say that the program will be run by quote independent close quote aims administration experts What do you mean by independent and why is that important A Well thats key I mean particularly in this unusual context but we are Mr Feinberg Ms Biros and I we are rob a PB not agents of the estate Were not here to do their bidding We make decisions on the design and I will make designs on the administration of the program how it operates and how claims are determined based on our own judgment and experience and the estate has agreed to be removed from any part of that process And so just to focus in on an individual claimants claim and the amount of compensation that the program and you as the administrator arrive at the statement provides that quote the estate will have no authority to reject or modify the administrators determination on any bas i or as to any aims close quote Why is that important to the program and the cla i mants A Its impor ant because 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E??ͰY?m t?ܨ Nʼ a D?b a zV?w 0H lM GZ P?Xd 1g grи??վ XE?JQ I??s?I X?C Jc??fv/9 IkZ?Ҙ W?Ž z??ju?Z jc?Ǧ hw ϊ?W T?ݢč?d qކc F"?Q s8 KԮ?v ji Х?K чQ0 ML??r a መgB e?X V??U d?W??m?P et a a wO j??m Tt?A_ DPVM _p O?L a?b i;ݫ??B R?R?V??T?ժ jo?E,o?H?4?ɌN 5ƒ e?fy K5 nO??ր??U H??P FV RR?6K K?O mFJ6 P?c?)f aJ_Zi?_ q?Y 4?E엠 A a s?o?ޙ1?YҨ?m 5P?BMa Můj??9?C q??q?դ G3 x?i J??o 9b?뒮?D??UDq?P J??5ly?q V?W?h a V?Pc K?h wj Uv DR?zf 9dEɏ 5?lB 5L yk nЛ?u X?W fn?ꄚ jzϮ R(?a s:Jl rX ФA?3 uV??S ro bate ST says participation in it does not affect any rights the claimant might have unless and until the claimant accepts the compensation determination and signs a release Why is it set up that way A It is set up again as a choice where the legal rights are not affected until the very end of the process until claimants are able to go through and eva uate her options see if its something that shes willing to accept or not with the freedom to withdraw the claim at any point in the process if shes not satisfied And I would add that one of the things that Mr Feinberg and thought was important to inc ude in this program was that that also includes not requiring as a condition of participation in the program any victim to ay pending itigation in order to participate Claimants can go on a parallel track through our claims process and through litigation if they want to seek discovery and only at the very end of the process would they have to make a decision of which way to go Taking that out of order as far us Proba you know have any claimants stayed voluntarily their actions A Yes it is my understanding that five Plaintiffs have stayed litigation with the expectation that this program would be up and running in short order because they apparently I understand that they believed that this was a bona fide alternative The sooner the program is up and running I take it the more likely it is to have people stay their litigation is that a fair assumption A Thats beyond the scope of what I can say Now the statement also says there in the statement Exhibit quote All claimants will be afforded a confidential opportunity to meet face-to-face with the Administrator if they so desire Why is that important A Again in my experience the victim wants an opportunity to be heard to tell their story in a way that is rarely captured in a paper file and so its something we wanted to offer the victims if they wish to Prob at ST 9-PB avail themselves of it Theres no requirement that any victim come in to meet with us If they do want to meet well make it available in different ways but that piece is important because of the opportunity to be heard and tell their stories Are you familiar with the Attorney General Counsel complaint and other papers that have expressed a concern that the opportunity to meet face to face with you doesnt adequately take into account some of the persons here in the Virgin Islands You need to come to me What would you do to accommodate that A We would accommodate Its already written into the draft protocol but we wou accommodate any questions You know we can do it by teleconference video conference We would be willing as we have said to some of the Plaintiffs lawyers who have clients in Florida to go to areas where there are a number of claimants where we could hold those meetings face to face And the mission statement refers to a claims protocol that includes quote Pr obate eligibility criteria the methodology for determining compensation proof requirements and claims procedures close quote Can you briefly address program protocol A Yes It just it lays out the terms and conditions or the proposed terms and conditions of how the program would operate It gives some visibility of the criteria that well apply when evaluating claims for eligibility and compensation and outlines the way that well process the claims and the expectations in terms of timing And how is the protocol developed A So Mr Feinberg Ms Biros and I drafted the protocol in November and December of One of our main objectives was to make it as broad and as claimant friendly as possible and with that in mind we removed a lot of the barriers that would apply or could apply in litigation The Statute of Limitations is not an issue that well keep in allowing people to participate prior settlement would not preclude someone from participating in the program and so we Probate developed a protocol with that in mind We want any victim who suffered abuse to be able to come in and participate in the program and once we had an initial draft we circulated it to the estate to the Plaintiffs lawyers to the USVI Attorneys Office in the Southern District of New York to get their feedback on the protocol And just to be clear I might not have heard you but I take it numerous Plaintiffs met with you and proceeded with you or Plaintiffs Counsel some of whom are here A Yes we met with nearly all of the lawyers we know about who represented Plaintiffs And if the Attorney General or her representative wanted to meet with you or just talk to you on the phone or have a series of meetings to express concerns will you listen to her A Absolutely In fact in my letter I invited an opportunity to meet with her and discuss more about the program and seek her input Probate Have you heard from her yet A I have not heard back ATTORNEY TOMBACK I would just like to offer up the protocol still in draft form Its not finalized but the protocol as it exists that have been provided to us for this purpose by Ms Feldman shows a track change based on meetings with Plaintiffs Counsel I dont want to review that I want to get this done before you lose patience THE COURT Yes I want to hear about the money ATTORNEY SMITH Your Honor just for the record Im not going to ask a question Just that the revision of the protocol is not what was before the Attorney General in the letter that was sent to her THE WITNESS As Mr Tornback just said the protocol that he just offered has a red line copy Only the red lines are new anything additional to that we circu ated to the Attorney General ATTORNEY TOMBACK Your Honor I have one more topic to cover which is to Probate provide briefly an overview of the actual claims process So if we can mark this as Exhibit I just want to provide some context because the program is not you need to understand the program I think to evaluate the costs By Attorney Tomback So taking a look at Exhibit i that in front of you A Not yet Let me wait Im reminded by my colleagues for the record of Exh ibi which Im going to offer and when the i tness identifies it then I will put it into evidence Its entitled the overview of the claims process So directing your attention to the third paragraph it says quote Claimants who voluntarily elect to file a aim with the program will be invited to participate excuse me invited to provide documentation identified in the claim form deve oped by the claims admin i stration experts and any additional corroborating or supporting obate ST-1 information to substantiate their claims Can you offer to the Court how that works in practice A So we all developed a claim form that will look to capture just some basic information about the claimant about the circumstances of her abuse the type of abuse the location when it happened how long it happened and invite her to submit any sort of documentation she might have to help corroborate the claim And if there is a deficiency in the claim will the claimant and other Counsel have an opportunity to correct that or address it A Yes The program as we have done in other programs we have administered before is intended to be claimant-friendly So if someone files a deficient claim well do a preliminary review identify what the deficiency is do out-reach to the claimant or her representative and work them to try to address the deficiency ATTORNEY TOMBACK Your Honor much of the Mission Statement speaks for p??v KZ?D Ty Lm T??y?n?X?C BR QDt Wj XX ȟ?Ս r?lb 8V?VEZB HB UZk?w?Ǥ U4 q?φM X?Ԁ e?A?n 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ʂ"z A V?N WJ 㬩a 8,SY?sv?g a 8u E??u L1 ʋ?g K?N?t lG Ley5I?讝??a?z Z?6?hEe7 I kY?n ȋ?S a نR JM??jl ijR_ 摗h8 j?_?JS?3ԈtI ɻ?tK OE??o ŢXlX?B t4p Y?UX Xh luf??0 t?tERغ G?ی Dvl up OiEt E?nN?H Prob a te itself If you dont mind I will quote two more paragraphs then move on By Attorney Tornback If you look Ms Feldman at the fourth full Paragraph Line where the word once appears on the right can you just read that into the record and comment on that for us A Once a completed claim has been submitted the Administrator will evaluate the claim based on all available information and will issue a determination regarding whether the claimant is eligible to receive compensation and the amount of compensation to be paid to an eligible claimant The individual claim determination will be based on that factor in the considerations identified in the protocol It speaks for itself I dont have any questions I just wanted to cover that I want to get to sort of an end game of how the process works In your overview statement theres an ultimate paragraph and I will read that into the record Upon the issuance of a compensation ro bat ST determination by the Administrator thats you the claimant will have complete freedom to accept or reject that determination If the claimant elects to accept the determination the claimant will sign a release waiving the claimants rights to litigate in the courts as set forth in the protocol Upon the Administrators receipt of the claimants acceptance of the compensation determination and executed release the Administrator will authorize payment to the claimant Do you have anything to add to tha A Only that the idea of this type of program as with the other programs that Mr Feinberg and I have administered is to get these victims paid quickly So our expectation is hat once we issue a determination if the claimant accepts it and sends in the release we will immediately notify the estate and our expectation is that they will disburse the funds very shortly thereafter And are you familiar with the __ roba te ST Attorney General lawsuit This is again that Complaint of Paragraph where they say the program quote requires any claimant accepting an award under the program is sacrificing any other claims against any persons or entity arising from or related to Mr Epstein Closed quote Do you view that criticism as sensible A Well like I said before this program is not intended to interfere with any sort of criminal investigation and the scope of the release has not yet been determined Ultimately I mean that is something that the estate is I understand 1s working on and ultimately if a claimant believes that their rights are unfairly compromised she has the freedom not to sign the release Right And if a claimant signs a release and for example the United States Virgin Islands Attorney General wants that claimant to serve as a witness in a criminal investigation hypothetically the person can still receive compensation sign a full release in terms of civil claims of the estate--if it i not scheduled another time obate ST and the Attorney General could still sit with that person and perhaps use her as a witness or to help the Attorney Generals investigation is that fair A Absolutely like I said before nothing limits the claimant from speaking with investigators about the circumstances Just in terms of the civil release itself those are common in your experience In other words that you settle sort of total settlement A Absolutely and actually this is different from the context where the waiver attaches at the very beginning of the process upon submission of the claim Here we thought it would be beneficial to the claimant to wait until the end of the process so that they have a more informed understanding about what they would receive Im just going to go through th is fast You set up a website right A Yes We started to develop a website We will set up a website And you set up a commencement Probate ST 9-PB OOBO date a start date a lets-go date A We have not We are tying it to approval by the Court to allow the program to move forward but we will be once its approved by the Court we can be up and running within ninety days and I expect because of the considerable amount of work that we have done up until then we would be able to do that even more quickly Last point before turning to the anticipated cost of the program theres a deadline for the submission of claims Why do you have to have a deadline A Because deadlines motivate people to act It provides certainty We found in our experience that people often wait till the very end of the process to file their claims the last day because life gets in the way and its not a priority until it becomes a priority So we proposed in the draft protocol making a 90-day filing window and we didnt hear any feedback from anyone that that was an inappropriately short period of time so thats our expectation Pro ate ATTORNEY TOMBACK So Your Honor the budget for the program can I have this marked as Exhibit Number and then I think it would be best to mark Number Number if its admitted into evidence is the engagement letter that Ms Feldman signed with one of the counsels for the estate By Attorney Tomback So Im told that the actual signatories for the engagement letter is not counsel but all co-executors A It was like not me Right Precisely Al right So is it correct that the design and the implementation on the operation of the program such as this requires significant personnel and costs A It requires a specialized expertise in a unique area and it requ i res bui ding out the infrastructure to support the operation And is there a budget prepared by you Mr Feinberg and Ms Biros A Yes And at the beginning when the budget was put together had you redacted the Proba te fees for Mr stei excuse or Mr einberg and fo you upfront A We did And was there concern about not having that being the very first thing that people focused on A We just felt like it was a distraction at the very beginning The copy that you presented to the Court which is Exhibit is un-redacted and so let me just ve one more minute So Ms Feldman turning here to Page of Exhibit the est i mated budget I think i ts probably just easier if you walked us through without quoting necessarily but walk through the large i eces of these expenses for the program and hen I wi ask you some questions about them A You said Page Yes but let me start by this i snt something we really prepared but how many people have the sort of expertise that you do and Mr Fe i nberg does to conduct a program like this A I dont know of many people Mr Pr a ST PB Feinberg is obviously the leading person in this area Its a pretty small group of people who do this kind of work So Im not great with analogies but if I were to compare Mr Feinberg to a car right would he be a good car--Lets not talk about the is he the best in the area in your view A In my view he is the best And in considerat i on of how to set up the fund in terms of the program in terms of design and in terms of administration without giving anything away that is privileged the group that came together to figure out how to ry to do this firs of al are you familiar with the fact that the group of executors co-executors and the i Counsel looked at other candidates other than you A I understand that you met with several other people And in talking through exactly how to structure the relationship between the wel relat i onship between you and Mr Feinberg are you familiar with some thoughts Pr at ST 9-PB or what you thought about why you should be the administrator rather than Mr Feinberg being the administrator and who should focus on design A It was rny--I mean you probably could speak to this selection process better than I can but it is my understanding that you were looking for someone who both had experience and had sensitivity to the victims experiences and I believe you were looking for a female to run the program And so can you just walk through them with the budget Starting with the first part of the budget what are the payments to Mr Feinberg I guess thats the start A Well he was retained to design the program based on his very extensive experience so the fees are related to the drafting of the protocol the meetings that we had with the Plaintiffs lawyers all of the work that goes into bringing his years and years of experience to bear and in designing and then the implementation of the program And then turning to the second part in terms of your fees first of all eba ST-19-PB just to divert and try to pick up on that area you are currently you are working sort of in the hope that the program will be approved right A Yes I mean you are just between jobs effectively working on this A Yes I have left my job with the fund to do this program because I truly believe it was in the best interest of the victims So since November we have been working full steam ahead to get this process up and running because we believe its the right thing to do but I have not been compensated and more importantly I havent been able to compensate other people who have been willing to dive in and start doing work to ensure the timely implementation of the program And the budget specifically says going back to Mr Feinberg--so this is on the record it says after listing a number of services that will be offered that Mr Feinbergs law offices will receive Pro ate per month and it says for a maximum period of two months It says thereafter all ongoing consulting services provided by Mr Feinberg and Ms Biros wil be deemed to be included in the above-referenced fee Do you understand Mr Feinberg to have made a commitment after the two months are over to provide services for free A Yes And in your experiences will he stick with the program or will he disappear A He always stick with the program He i very re iable very reliable ATTORNEY TOMBACK Your Honor the budget those are the main pieces We ca walk through THE COURT Tell me the bottom line ATTORNEY TOMBACK The bottom ine of he budge THE COURT The budget has a bottom line Are you going to rent office spaces ATTORNEY TOMBACK We can walk through that Your Honor Proba te ST-1 THE COURT Just tell me what the office space is You know and this question about Mr Feinberg this a month for two months is that to him or his law firm THE WITNESS The law firm ATTORNEY TOMBACK The law Office and just to be clear so hell bring to bear the whole thing THE COURT I just want to know if its to the law firm ATTORNEY TOMBACK Yes and Ms Biros alluding THE COURT Lets just get it for the persons here right Remember you have been kind enough to give Government Counsel copies of the budget and other documents but remember there are other counsels for claimants present who that was their concern concerning their claims and they have not been given that information and will have to wait until the session adjourns to go to the clerks office to get copies So I just want you to give us where the large expenses would be By Attorney Tomback X?k??w RZh8??YRb?5?Rc V?t k?ꖜ IwH P?e eR t??no n?W?m lN lb 2e J?z?B媢 a O?l5H Ǒ?mVo 9I?k N?Ͻ R??p?h вX??Q AL Z??B?a V?Lc.ǁ?Q bM?5 w?g xC?c g?e R??롸 yU?n jP Cw D3 ou??N??t Ni?d r8 i??Õ S?a ѐp?L5 lr F9K"SA?7 ES 1w DT XH O0 q?v u?c ر?H Uq Қ??Q w?8TÑ RE A?g??DXK?5 U6 U7mSU??l FM B?C?E j:H?u k?7ft?h M"?f Nh??lH WU cJ 9p J??T?Ƌ bo?2?qxL??wf?Kމ _q I?q?Z 8?Ӹ?l?fR nBhи-G?p??ΟXԆ Jw??6I TH??4D?Fq J??I?쬜 E?1e T?f??mf l58s?Yb;?m ɨIêI Vw?n AY I nI nUx?y?ǻ cV m?xIԓwT E?T?Bȵs C??PeOm uxnn?Y tj ٳʭ?L X?sV w?t k?Y 3?ӳ??SLAO i?i Dy8 E?ث?q JSD?Iy?q?"??y?KX j?F ҙ??m Ϣm?9g?WAu P?F AÔ u?y 嬵H?t?Q??a0?Z??XzE A?N Probate So Ms Feldman the payments used for the duration for programs right which were how many months is the estimate assuming the timeline A The estimated budget assumed to months to design implement administer from start to finish I think that the estimation was made with the expectation in November that it would be approved in short order and that we would be able to execute the contract with vendors and contractors which we have not been able to do because I dont have the authority to do it So we have done all of the work up until that point but have not yet been able to execute and some people have had to decline to participate because of the passage of time We still anticipated it being a relatively short time frame I dont know if it will be within the to month period That number also assumes you know depending on the number of claimants and that is not just legitimate claimants We will be accepting claims from some claimants who were determined not to be eligible and those are claims that Pr at have to go through the process just like any other claims in order to get to that determination And so with respect to your personal fees is the fee a month for the estimated to and if necessary additional months A Im sorry Just to understand if you look at i for Design and implementation for the entire program what is the fee that will be paid to you Ms Feldman A After the months No In total for during the 14-month period A It would be that times Right And then with respect to I mean just walking through this so its in the record even though the documents are there in terms of the fees and expenses that will be required to be paid and operation of the claims process you have the backroom costs some sort of website the distribution of program documents developing of procedures to track the claims to investigate the claims Probate and to supervise a tol free calling center do you estimate the projected costs for that for the entire program to be in the range of to A Yes that is what we estimated in November The Attorney General said a month but 1s that not for the who program A Right Most of those are cost that would be up front in terms of he development of the website We want to develop functionality to allow someone to submit a claim electronically but that is for the duration of the program And then in terms of staffing depending upon the number of aimants who come forward theres provision in the budget or up to not necessari three but up to three attorneys to support your program and hen adminis rative support data analyt i cal support inform-tion echnology ppor etcetera So those staffing services mon hly cos are estimated to be in the range of but that can change if you were to Pr obate become that would be addressed for more people correct A Yes These estimates are based on whatever information we had available at the time that we drafted this in November ATTORNEY TOMBACK Your Honor theres one other topic that I would like to I have to do one other thing is what Im told By Attorney Tornback This final item is in the estimated budget on Page that you need to have office spaces and equipment You cant use your old spaces right And there are other employee costs in the range of to is that correct A Thats right That is additional cost okay The last topic I want to cover Your Honor is timing So we touched on timing but can you just express in a nutshell how important it is for the program toge oing A Its extremely important Why A Because the victims want it to move forward I mean to hear many of their Pr ob a te representatives come up and say i actually impacted me even more than just this was particularly imp ressive upon me because these victims have been at the precipice of opportunity to get some measure of justice i many different points and its been pulled out from under them or delayed in some way And we are now at a po i nt where we invested a considerable amount of time to put together a draft of what the program would look like to seek the input of the plaintiffs lawyers We have their support and the victims are now from my understanding in speaking with many of the Plaintiffs lawyers they have had conversations with their clients and their clients are really eager to have this process move forward And their expectations have been raised in terms of i being implemented in short order and so to delay this further would really be a great i s-service to these victims Just so I sort of break them in I call them claimants you call them victims but its the same th i ng ust put them Probate ST 9-PB in two categories okay One category are Plaintiffs whove already brought su i through their counsels the bulk of them in New York If the program doesnt go forward then they would be stuck litigating right I mean theyre going to have to litigate Is that a fair assessment of whats going to happen to them A Thats my understanding Okay I want to address this separately I mean I think that the Court understands that so I dont want to be abor it but I just want to address a separate group which is if a person whose claim that shes been harmed by Mr Epstein but for whatever reason does not want to go to court wan the conf i dentiality wants to sit with you and not sit in a courtroom and testify and so forth and so on if the program doesnt go forward what happens in your view to that person A Shes left without recourse ATTORNEY TOMBACK One moment Your Honor I think Im done here So I just have one more question of Ms Feldman and I wanted Probate ST to call Mr Feinberg solely to address the prior concern that the Attorney General has And Your Honor I dont want to THE COURT But you know what Its not about the Attorney Generals concern My concern is you are coming here to ask this Court to 243und this program My concern is what types of monies are you talking of That is what you need to address not the Attorney General i ght How much money are you talking about that I would have to say allow the executors co-executors to move from the estate to this program Ms Feldman would you be able to say based on your experience what would be the range of settlement in these types of matters THE WITNESS Well its--let me just preface it by saying you know we have gotten representat i on from the estate that there i ll be no cap on either a given amount on the individual claims and I believe Mr Foster made this point it is impossible to value these claims in the abstract right Probate There are different circumstances in each case so its hard to say You know I think that we are talking about you know claims that would range from the thousands of dollars up into the millions of dollars THE COURT Would this be where you could and I think you may have testified to this you could enter an agreement with these claimants victims as to the settlement amounts they sign the release and they understand they may have to wait for their payment because I think you said that the whole idea is to have them fully compensated within a short period of time THE WITNESS But the goal would BE that once they sign the release and we are able to notify the estate that the estate would be able to disburse that money almost immediately I understand from the Catholic Church Sex abuse cases its turned around in a week or two In the September 11th program they were also able to turn it around in a few weeks time so that would be the goal THE COURT That would be the Pr obate PB goal you un ers and in his matter the Government of the Virgin Island has filed an action that may impede that THE WITNESS I would say that to the extent that the Governments interest is at least in part to protect the victims interest that interest is not being served by them trying to step in and take priority over the victims THE COURT Well I dont know The People will have to speak to where their interest lies but I know what the People have filed to put a ien on all the properties of the estate ATTORNEY TOMBACK I asked counsel whether there are any claimants any individual people that they represent THE COURT Well the Government never represent individual people The Government represents the People of the Virgin Islands ATTORNEY TOMBACK Right but just to be clear there is no claimant that would receive those monies There are criticisms about the program in terms of how Probate PB it will treat claimants but they have no claimants THE COURT If I understand what the People of the Virgin Islands is saying is they are concerned that this program could wipe out whatever they believe they should be entitled to under the action they have filed Thats what I am trying to get what is the bottom line How much money are you talking about Is there anyway to segregate and say whatever the People are coming against and they have listed what they are seeking what property they put a lien on They havent put a lien on well they put a lien on the entire estate which all these shares are sitting in the estate--that is what I am trying to getr and I think it maybe you have to talk to the People ATTORNEY TOMBACK The only thing I believe I can help in one respect is that the co-executors and their Counsel believe first of all theres a net savings of litigation costs to the estate to proceeding in this way THE COURT Sir you are Probate missing I understand that I totally get it that it will be for everybody involved less costly to enter into the settlement program than to litigate I get that in terms of money in terms of time But Im also backed up where I have what the People of the Virgin Islands The Government of the Virgin Islands has filed this Criminal Activity Lien Notice which tells me that everything that they have taken this lien nothing can be disbursed That is where we are What can I do at this point with this notice that has been given to the Court ATTORNEY TOMBACK Two ways Your Honor that I think that we can try to address that One way is to point out that the concerns expressed about the program are not accurate I think Ms Feldman has THE COURT Sir ATTORNEY TOMBACK And the second way THE COURT No Listen I disagree I dont think whatever concerns they had about the program thats not before me I understand that The Government of the roba ST PB Virgin Islands is saying Im going in to take a stake in this forfeiture action to take control Its not about the program They are saying dont pay out anything on the program because you could not distribute anything from this estate because I have filed this lien and this lien says any trustee executor person or institution who moves transfer or conveys title to personal or real property upon which a Criminal Activity Lien Notice has been filed which the personal or real property is located or who transfers or conveys such property while having actual notice of this lien shall be liable to the Attorney General That is the concern That is what they are seeking here or they come in And I told Attorney Smith she couldnt ask any questions but that is what I understood that by this program you said you could enter into settlement you said ten thousand to tens of thousands of dollars to persons and then their concern is and then we get our forfeiture judgment and theres nothing there Do you understand That is what I understand the Government is moving Probate PB-0 ATTORNEY TOMBACK Could I have one question and then I will propose a way of going forth which is we could like let the program at least develop So the Order that is before Your Honor maybe that is the best thing to do at this point the Order before Your Honor is just to allow Ms Feldman to be engaged and Mr Feinberg to really be engaged to continue their work and to get a protocol to bring to Your Honor to approve but it seems I mean I think Im reading between the lines that it seems that Your Honor is speaking about maybe a cap on the amount that you dont like the--maybe put a cap on the amount You dont like the infinite nature I guess the way you are describing it THE COURT Well is there a set of money that could be moved to fund this program because okay you bring the protocol to be approved right I approved the protocol You start working You say to months from the time of the release this person is to be paid but then I have on the other side what the People are dealing with in the civil court Proba ST And how I read the Statute that lien can be in place for a period of six years So now youve set up a program Persons the victims come in sign release believe everything is in place I think that is where I am at ATTORNEY TOMBACK The problem with that Your Honor is that I mean I can let the Plaintiffs Counsel address that that will chill the program THE COURT I understand ATTORNEY TOMBACK Let me just ask a question so I understand so we can clarify the point on this okay If the Attorney General recovers lets say one million dollars from the estate is that one million dollars going to go to the budget of the Virgin Islands or is it going to go to the victims If its going to go to the victims I dont know why we cant bridge the gap and get the Attorney General to be satisfied with this program THE COURT You know what I said and it comes down maybe to the estate needs to meet with the Attorney General to do that Probate ATTORNEY TOMBACK Were prepared THE COURT I think I have said that a couple of times The estate may need to mee with he ttorney Gener with the victims the claimants Counsel here is saying we are fully in support of this because the only person we believe will be hurt by not approving this program are the victims because the victims either would have to go into courts right expend monies for attorneys on both sides when theres a program that is going to be fully developed They are saying we can deal with these victims fully resolve the issues and have them compensated in to months Madam Attorney General what would you be willing to do on this point Release a portion of the estate just to fund this program while you proceed with your action ATTORNEY TOMBACK We can absolutely do have We could do that immediately and the only question I can ask Your Honor I can hand up as an exhibit its Probate already in the court records but Your Honor two copies One I want you to have Its not really for the witness In the interim we would just like to move forward No awards of money no release of money but to move this process forward to complete the protocol which is something that would come to you Your Honor to approve if that is what you want if you want to exercise that jurisdiction over the program Otherwise for the executors to approve the protocol and be in a position to move forward if in fact we can reach an agreement with the Attorney General or otherwise avoid what I think you call a freeze of the program which obviously we dont want That Order will allow Ms Feldman actually to be gainfully employed again and to move forward and for Mr Feinberg to put i together THE COURT You are going to ask me to sign this order now ATTORNEY TOMBACK Yes Your Honor please THE COURT No I dont believe Probate ST so I havent even seen what you had marked in the exhibits and they have not been admitted You havent moved for the admission ATTORNEY TOMBACK I move for the exhibits of through Eight is already in the record I thought I move a few of them in before THE COURT No you havent because I never ruled ATTORNEY TOMBACK Id like to move to enter into the record Exhibits through THE COURT They will be so admitted ATTORNEY SMITH Of course Your Honor I just would want to say that I want to put my objection on the record THE COURT Im not signing any motion from the bench Trust me on this ATTORNEY TOMBACK Your Honor Im being urged to ask and I actually want to ask it myself but I don want to anger Your Honor I would very much like to call Mr Feinberg just to add es the Attorney Generals concern It may help make progress oba te I think THE COURT Call just him for the limited purpose of that Ive gotten I think the claimants Counsel who was present wanted to know the money Attorney Benham I keep looking at you You have that as part of the record that now you can get copies of that and then now the attorneys can be in a better position to say if I understood that that was their reservation but I think maybe you need to talk to the Attorney General the Government of the Virgin Islands Department of Justice as to his concerns We now know what the monies are We now know what you are seeking to set it up ATTORNEY TOMBACK Your Honor just so you understand that the executors are trying to sort of move between a rock and a hard place What is difficult for the executors is that the reason that theres no quote/unquote cap on the program is to attract claimants to the program and to avoid criticisms from Plaintiffs Counsel that we are given quote/unquote only dollars And so we carefully avoided that and I understand Probate L9 PB OOBO that the Attorney General wants effectively a cap and well work with the Attorney General to try to get this done THE COURT I dont think that is what they want The Attorney General to me is just saying make sure whatever judgment they may get right now you know what We have two sets claims We have a claim by the Attorney General and the claimants The question is does the Attorney General lien take priority over anything else done in the estate and I said that is how I read it Attorney Blum said that 1s how he read it too that it may stop everything because the Attorney General has put a lien on all the property I said well the estate has to continue to function It has to pay its bills it has to and Attorney Smith I think conceded that it may have basic administration costs but this 1s different what you are asking this Court to do while I have this lien here And this is what I am saying why cant somebody guide the Court whether Counsel submit memorandums of law no it does not we can proceed roba te ST whether you can say we can back out this amount whatever is going on in the civil court should not be affected we believe the estate if the Attorney General the Government of the Virgin Islands was to prevail this will be the amount that they would recover and so we can safely expend these monies on this program but remember the question was because we dont have the quarterly accountings we dont have the full evaluation We dont know what the estate consist of ATTORNEY TOMBACK Your Honor I understand Can we start with Mr Feinberg just to address the subsequent concerns that the Attorney General have with the program if I can call him THE COURT Just call him quickly Thank you Ms Feldman We have all exhibits admitted Thereupon Probate PB Mr Feinberg before you were sworn in I think you have all the exhibits in front of you so it would go much quicker THE COURT Hes already sworn in ATTORNEY TOMBACK He already sworn in THE COURT Yes we were good on this one By Attorney Tomback A Where do you live Mr Feinberg Washington DC Did you come down here just to testify in this proceeding A I did Where are you employed A Im the Law Office of Kenneth Feinberg PC What do that firm do A We specialize in alternative dispute resolutions mediations arbitrations and claim programs like the one proposed Would you just describe briefly to Your Honor your experience in this matter A I started in with the Agent Proba Orange Vietnam veterans liability litigation where we set up a program following the settlement I was appointed by the Bush Administration to design and administer the funds I was appointed by the Obama Administration to design and administer the Deep Water Horizon Explosion and Im currently a co-administrator and designer of Catholic Church sexual abuse cases in five states Have you written any books A I have written two One is Life Worth My experiences with the Victim Compensation Fund And Who Gets What chapters devoted to my various claim administration programs And is it fair to say that you are regarded as either the best or one of the best people in dealing with these sorts of complicated multiple claimant filings A That is for others to say Im busy at it Will you disagree with Ms Feldman on that A No Do you have a role in this io ba PB program the Epstein Victim Compensation Program A Yes I have been asked by the estate to work with Ms Feldman and Ms Biros in the design implementation and administration of a proposed program Do you believe the program would work if the Court approves it A Yes And are you familiar with the oppositions to the estate motion for establishment of a voluntary claims resolution program fi ed basically last Friday by Attorney General Denise George A A A Yes Have you reviewed I have What do you think of The Attorney General is trying do what i best for the Virgin Islands I to cant question that There are statements made in the Complaint that I disagree with and I agree with the Court sitting up back that the estate and the Attorney General should be able to work this out Probate And I direct your attention to Page of the Opposition It says quote the program does not secure the Governments substantial and legally protectable interest in the appropriate and supervised distribution of the estates assets Whats your understanding of whose ro it should be to quo supervise the i ribution of the es ates assets A The Government has an interest Its the executors role Theres no reason you cant set up this program and administer it to the satisfaction of the Government I think as weve done in other programs with the Government of the United States or states that have studied the program and gone along with the proposal Okay On Page of the Attorney Generals letter she notes that Virgin Islands law entitles victims of crimes to be treated with dignity and compassion to be protected from intimidation to be informed of their legal rights and to receive reparations for physical and emotional injuries suffered as a result of being a victim of a violent roba ST bodily crime Breaking that down how many claimants have made themselves known roughly to the program so far A I think its probably either known or in anticipation from talk with Plaintiffs lawyer probably about fifty There may be more Once you announce a program they will be gilded and they will come But the goals set out in the Attorney Generals Complaint is exactly the goal of this program to satisfy the Attorney General and the estate and especially the victims in getting them prompt compensation To date are any of the claimants that have come forward US Virgin Islands residents that you know of A Im not aware of any I dont know And Ms George says quote under the framework of the fund theres no obligation that the program Administrator be subj ect--wi thdrawn On Page on the long part of Page Ms George notes that the programs Probate ST 9-PB design quote would be in part determined by an undefined group of those with an interest in resolution of the sexual abuse claims made by Mr Epsteins victims and she complains that quote this group could include any number of individuals and entities close quote Who actually designed the program to the extent its designed so far A The protocol was very transparent The Administrator will be Jordana Feldman the program has been designed by Ms Biros and myself Its been submitted to both the estate lawyers and the executor and its been submitted to very distinguished Plaintiff Counsel They have commented weve redlined it we are still reviewing it but it is a very transparent process designed to get eligible claimants fast compensation Without restating what Ms George said do you understand that in administering the program Ms Feldman you and Ms Biros will be subjected to the supervision and approval of this Court obate A Thats my understanding And do you understand that we are here because we sought the approval of the Court We just didnt do it right A Yes And once you developed the protocol is it the plan of the executors and the funds administrators independent though we do communicate is there a joint plan to come back to the Court with the protocol for Your going Honor A to be for the judges approval That is my understanding And that happens before a cent paid out of the fund A Thats my understanding lS And I asked Ms Feldman a bunch of questions about would she listen to the Attorney General has she heard from the Attorney General I take it not only will the Co-Executors be willing to speak with the Attorney General but you Ms Feldman Ms Biros etcetera will be willing to take her input A Whatever the Attorney General wants Probate ST-19-PB Okay On Page the Attorney General also complains that the Epstein well the program quote fails to specify what constitutes a sexual assault and who qualifies as a claimant What in your experience is the program--what constitutes sexual assault i this program A The submission by a Plaintiffs lawyer or prose claimant claiming that the alleged victim was abused in various ways minimally to very very extensively here are all the circumstances given rise to that sexual abuse and the administrator will make a determination as to eligibility and as to the amount if eligible the amount of money that will be proffered or offered to that claimant It sounds like a whole bunch of questions Is it fair to say that its an extremely low bar for a person or her counsel to come forward and to participate in the program and then have a dialogue with the program about what is just compensation A Yes it is Much lower than a Probate court of law And Ms George expresses concern that quote children who were sexually abused by Mr Epstein may mistakenly believe that they consented to this assault and may not recognize their eligibility for compensation Of those that youre familiar with who has come forward do any of them allege that they were minors when Mr Epstein sexually abused them A Im not aware of individual claims at this stage Combining a number of concerns that Ms George has why is there a window and a deadl in and why does the program not just go on forever I know Ms Feldman addressed that but can I hear from you A You cant have a program like this go on forever Its not good for claimants In the fund two thirds of all the claimants arrived and filed a claim in the last ninety days of a 33-month program If you do not have a deadline people procrastinate Its human nature So we try and set up a timeline Probate ST that will provide claimants and their Counsel ample opportunity to file claims We have discussed this not only with the estate but with the various lawyers representing claimants And if a claimant missed that window will they still have recourse to the courts to in to A Not only will the courts but as you certain circumstances allow a late filing On Page of they have recourse may understand we will bend the rules her letter Ms George urges that quote any program proposed to compensate Mr Epsteins victims should counsel the psychological trauma of minors who often repress memories of their abuse by allowing them additional time for filing a claim instead of limiting time for filing Do you feel the program give enough time A I think so and I agree with that statement but I think that a nine-month program as the word gets out we should be able to get all eligible claimants to file And you just covered this but in Probate PB your experience the programs have cutoffs and then there is some flexibility that the administrator has to try to loop people in who for whatever reason has missed the time A In the Victim Compensation Fund of all eligible claimants filed In the GM Ignition Switch Traumatic Car Accident Program over filed and in all of these church sexual abuse cases the overwhelming number well in excess of filed within the deadline On Page Ms George continues and says quote the evidence requirement could potentially exclude deserving claimants close quote and says theres concern that the program will exclude victims or claimants who may be unable to document their claims Whats your reaction to that A Thats a very legitimate concern We think the way the protocol was drafted and the procedures that have been drafted will satisfy the Attorney General that we wont find eligible claimants deemed ineligible and that is a very real concern of ours in drafting the protocol Pr obat ST I mean thats a very fine point I asked Its not really clear to me whether the Attorney General is concerned about finding too many people eligible or finding too many people ineligible I mean the goal of the program right is to figure out the people who are truly eligible and to accurately figure out what is just compensation A Correct Thats the whole game right A Correct Okay We covered the concern about being forced to come to New York or not being heard If need be could you envision corning down here I guess you or Ms Feldman coming down here if theres enough people here and meeting with claimants A Absolutely Dont forget what these people often want as much as compensation if not more is validation is acknowledgment the opportunity to be heard and this is something that is a very important voluntary aspect of the program Ms George complains that the rrobate program quote contains no assurances that the information submitted by a claimant cannot be later used against her if she thereafter decides to file suit against the estate or any other co-defendant Is that criticism grounded in the way you see the program A No No The protocol expressly secures the confidentiality of anything provided by the claimant The claimant and the claimant alone decides the extent of transparency or disclosure not the program not the administrator or the estate A few more on Page 6,theres a concern that notes quote the program provides no protection to claimants who voluntarily provide information that may later be used to defend the estate from claims or provides evidence against other victims Does the program work that way A No The program seals all the information and various common law and statutorial privileges apply Weve seen that in these other programs attorney-client etcetera settlement discussions etcetera NH ԑL4b?r??ȋ ye C?r A?b XX A mBN ʩ2 I 8v T8?x ÚHm1 UeH?Jc??2B Kİ?/?j?Q?bN?S??C?E Ӵ?J Jj r?pdb_??s Mr??AX 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A?dԉ b??dr obate PB Is one thing clear between you and the executors and their counsel that you are independent right A Thats right When the estate approached me and the Court asked this question a little earlier When the estate approached me and I recommended Ms Feldman and Ms Biros I had certain preconditions based on my experience One Once the program is up and running any decision made by Ms Feldman as the Administrator is independent and may not be challenged by the estate Second pre-condition I asked the estate point blank is there enough money in the program to indemnify all eligible claimants and the expressed answer I received from the estate is absolutely There are sufficient funds in the estate to provide eligible claimants with generous compensation without resort to any cap or any artificial ceiling placed on an individual award Now I reminded the estate that in the fund the compensation ranged from Probate ST a claim We had a few claims in excess of five million dollars In the GM Ignition Switch programs the claims ranged from about to a few million dollars and I wanted to be satisfied that in designing this protocol the estate had suffic i ent assets not only to fund the infrastructure the budget but albeit sufficient funds without a cap for the administrator to und in some cases perhaps multi-million dollar awards The estate has assured me and Ms Feldman that there are sufficient funds so that any reasonable program with maybe fifty or one hundred maybe more claimants there will be claimants that will received I suspect multi million dollar awards and there would be claimants deemed ineligible because Ms Feldman is correct that when you build one of these programs there will be certain claimants who will file and will be found ineligible So in response to the Court I cant say yet without examining the claims whether the average claim will be one hundred thousand do ll ars a million dollars two rob at million dollars but the protocol anticipates any claimant deemed eligible can be valued by the Administrator without regard to limited funds Some other plaintiffs counsel raised this Ive raised this with David Boies Ive raised this with Brad Edwards Ive raised this with other Plaintiffs counsel There is no cap and Plaintiffs Counsel have been assured that they should participate in this program Directing your attention to when Ms George says on Page of her letter quote the range of compensation must be available to claimants before filing It goes on to say quote the potential range of compensation available for each claim should be provided in advance close quote Based on your experience is that the way you generally develop the protocol A Cant be Until we examine the claims and the allegations and the circumstantial evidence of abuse you cant begin to anticipate variations among bate PB claimants You cant develop a public matrix that will I think raise false expectations as to what the ranges would be Theres a certain degree of discretion that the independent administrator must have once reviewing the entire file to determine eligible compensation If the claimant wishes this includes an interview with Ms Feldman correct A At the claimants option Not required Failure to request a hearing wont adversely impact the administrator Thats something that the claimant must decide with his or her lawyer A few more On Page Ms George says quote the absence of clear and precise parameters for inclusion or exclusion in the program fails to provide appropriate guidance to ensure potential claimants will not be left out Specifically without clear criteria potential claimants neither have the information or confidence to approach the fund Weve been over this basically Probate ST-19-PB OOBO you believe youve been sexually abused and you show up that is sufficient I mean do you feel there is a need for more infrastructure at the front end A In the draft protocol that we hope to finalize with the approval of this Court we lay out in some pretty clear language the criteria that the administrator looks at Its similar to what were looking at now in the Catholic Church sexual abuse cases in five states Its basically that type of criteria Its not exclusive but we think that provides the claimant and I think the Attorney General with a pretty good blueprint of what Ms Feldman will be looking at in administering this voluntary program Ms George makes the statement that the program administrators ability to award compensation quote makes it less likely that each claimant receives the compensation to which she is fairly and impartially entitled Your view on that A Well I just said that is not true As long as theres no cap on the program as long as Administrator Feldman can Probate ST-19-PB render an independent decision as to each claim without regard to any cap based on the states representations I dont think any eligible claimant is going to be shortchanged by the number of eligible claimants So far I just want to ask you do you agree that one of the themes that the Attorney General is pointing towards is concern that any claimant will somehow be disadvantaged not receive enough consideration there might be a cap on what they may get In other words concern that people would come forward and state that they have been victimized and become claimants they need to be treated as well as possible A I think thats right I think its a fair concern but I think the protocol addresses that concern and ensures that each claimant will receive an independent valuation without regard to available other available funds Youve already addressed this but the demand that Ms George makes on Page is that the program quote should disclose any limits on the amounts of compensation Pr ob at individually or collectively speaking of compensation to claimants In your view should those amounts be disclosed You know married to an identifier of the claimant In other words aimant named A,B,C receives X,Y,Z A No I dont think claimants in particular claimants in particular dont want amounts that theyve received to be disclosed and the protocol spells out expressly that there is no cap or no limit on the amount of individual compensation Right She says the quote addresses disclosing limits You dont want a imit A Thats right If a claimant doesnt like the compensation award she receives can she reject it A Of course very few do if we do our job right but the answer is yes I was just going to ask you in your experience with just a couple of the funds that youve run what has been the acceptance rate exactly robate A All of the funds that Ive administered the acceptance rate is above and thats because the programs have very quick I think Ms Feldman was a little guarded I think in this program since its been delayed in up and running I think the compensation decisions once made people will be paid within a week and Ill be very surprised it will be a first if we dont have the vast number of eligible claimants paid quickly And then are you-well Ms George said that this is on Page again There is a lot on Page She says quote the waiver of requirement is unjust referring to the waiver requirement that I think this is what she is terming the waiver--that if somebody receives compensation she must give a global release Do you view that as unjust or necessary A I dont view it as unjust Its a voluntary program If the claimant and her lawyer dont fee that the compensation thats offered by Ms Feldman is fai or just or reasonable they opt out and continue to Pro a ST litigate or pursue other remedies Is the estate vulnerable to third party claims and how does that work if in fact the estate does not receive a general release from a compensated claimant A Thats a very interesting provocative question raised by the Attorney General and others And as Ms Feldman stated earlier the scope of the release has not yet been finalized The estate has to make a decision Does it want total peace Ms Feldman you will pay what ever is necessary to secure a comprehensive release so we wont be cross-claimed by a claimant or alternatively now if a claimant wants to release the estate but litigate against or that is up to the claimant So that is a critical issue and you can argue both ways and I think that the estate and the administrator and the plaintiffs lawyers are discussing that at this time Page Ms George complains that the program quote does not specify whether the administrator is permitted or required to share evidence with law enforcement thus positioning the program as a potential means to conceal criminal activity close quote I take it that wasnt an accusation that youre trying to conceal anything but in any event whats your view on that A In the forty years that Ive designed and administered these programs law enforcement has never sought to secure any civil confidential information In the church cases the Attorney General of various states have come to us and said you know you have a lot of information about wrongdoings by Clergy and we refused to--we work out with the Attorney General go see the diocese or the Church Dont come to a program where claimants individual victims have participated in a program on the absolute guarantee of the administrator that information that have been submitted will not be disclosed to anybody And that is a very important part of this Claimants do not want information disclosed The program would it respect that wish of claimants ro bate ST-1 A Its expressly spelled out in the protocol yes And they can still go to law enforcement Period Full stop Its up to them A Its up to them and they can go public Thats up to them The estate cannot The administrator cannot On Page Ms George says that the program quote presents an unavoidable conflicts of interest close quote between the executors and the program She said the Co-Executors have quote an inescapable conflict of interest in recommending a program that proposes to compensate any individual or entity making such allegations requiring in return overly broad releases Do you have a view on this A You have to ask the estate on that I can tell you that before we agreed to take on this assignment Ms Feldman and myself and Ms Biros we have received absolute assurances from the estate that they will play no role in the day-to-day administration of this program Probate Okay So when it comes to the time to set what is viewed as just compensation for claimants anywhere for me my clients one of the Co-Executors other counsel zeror right A No Zero And in terms of your understanding just from your long experience of the Co-Executors in viewing them so far do you view them there as exercising their fiduciary duty appropriately A In this case In this program A Very much so The estate has made it clear from day one they want to create an independent claims program to quickly and efficiently resolve these sexual abuse claims against the estate in a manner that is efficient cost effective and satisfies their fiduciary duties There have been no problems They have worked closely with us as have the Plaintiffs lawyers in designing and implementing this program And Ms George goes on to say on Page that,quote disclosure of conflicts is oba ST critical to allow the Court to evaluate the ability of the program to engage in error and impartial arms length negotiations or resolutions ATTORNEY SMITH Your Honor if I may Counsel is referring to a letter theres no letter thats before the Court thats from the Attorney General Hes referring to a motion Its not a letter Theres no communication with the Attorney General to the estate ATTORNEY TOMBACK Sorry THE COURT Ive been reading along on the Motion ATTORNEY TOMBACK Its in the mot Your Honor I have been referring to it as a letter Thank you very much By Attorney Tornback So lets assume there is a conflict in some way that the Executor has with something I dont know what Would that matter in terms of the determination that the program makes A No Under the protocol and under the agreement once this program is up and Proba running Ms Feldman examines every claim and makes an independent judgment as to eligibility first and valuation second And the next to the last weve covered the concern about undisclosed costs and the budget and the engagement letter So I want to address that The last thing on Page that Ms George asserts the program as proposed quote offers no reconciliation or accountability because quote theres no disclosure of Mr Epsteins conduct the number of victims or the amount of awards paid Does the program in anyway discourage disclosure of Mr Epsteins or anybodys conduct related to him A No This program is about compensating victims quickly Whether or not theres criminal activity or criminal investigation or what have you this program is focused strictly on determining eligible compensation and paying those victims who have waited so long for compensation Besides the specific identify will the number of victims the amount of Pr obate ST awards paid by the program be disclosed and provided to the Court for its review A Youll have to ask the estate that Im assuming that there would be some degree of obligation on the part of the administrator to keep the Court i nformed about the progress and scope of the program If this program does not go forward in real speed in real time in your view based on your experience with similar programs what is the likely outcome A It will be a tragedy It will be a tragedy not to quickly try and compensate as many victims as come forward who are eligible ATTORNEY TOMBACK Your Honor I welcome any questions you may have of Mr Feinberg Im done THE COURT I dont believe the concern is the ogram an what the program is designed to accomplish or whether the persons who have been engaged to design this program have the experience knowledge and can get it done No one has addressed for me and I keep coming back to that Im still at I go Proba forward with the program and how do I do that with what the Government of the Virgin Islands has filed because the program requires a significant expenditure of monies right and it is the victims come in I understand you would like a quick turn around but victims could have awards of millions of dollars and then the Government of the Virgin Islands is here saying the estate has been dissipated Weve proceeded with the program you knew we had this lien assets of the estate were converted to cash to satisfy the claims That where I am I never had any concerns about the program and how the program would work And as the claimants counsel who were present said everybody agrees the program is what they want They just wanted to know what is the money to establish the program We now have a budget and now we have that the awards can be any amount depending on how the victim presents what she is able to or can show the administrator but we still come back to this lien on everything of the estate ATTORNEY TOMBACK Your Honor Probate well speak to it right now THE COURT Yes ATTORNEY TOMBACK But can I just point out one last thing before we do that If you look at the prayer for relief of the Attorney General correct I mean it basically summarizes that the Attorney General wants all the money THE COURT Yes I got that She wants everything ATTORNEY TOMBACK But the Attorney General in her Complaint and in her Motion To Intervene has put forth--I think the witnesses have been completely clear--its sort of--I dont think intentionally but sort of fake facts about the program I just want to put the cap on that THE COURT Okay ATTORNEY TOMBACK I dont understand why the Attorney General stalking about the program and why the Attorney General is even criticizing the program If shes basically just saying I want to take all the money right and I want to deny the victims the right to the program and I want to try to ro bate ST PB gum up the entire estate well sure well talk to the Attorney General I dont underst nd but well grapple with the merits of her claim but the merits of her criticisms he program is why Feinberg is here and Ms Feldman and Im asking questions and why the Plaintiffs I presume are defending the program Im just saying they dont have any merit and I want to move on THE COURT You talked to the Attorney General I let you address the Attorney Generals concern My concern was how much money are we talking about to fund the program for this Court to approve and you say to the executors you can fund this program you can set this up right I didnt go into the merits of the program because I have where all the claims that are filed everybody said they support the program The issue is and I keep bringing it back is how does this Court fund this program if I have what the Attorney General has set an action in process in the civil court and has filed a lien that says you Probate cannot use any assets of the estate Wouldnt I have to move significant assets over to this program if you are going to compensate victims within to days Thats what it is But youre saying the Attorney General whether or not shes not compensating any particular vie ims is seeking to compensate the People of the Virgin Islands that is her client That is who she represents Now if you want to go over to the civil court and say she has no merits to say I should take what the estate has that the People cant show why she should be entitled to that and I see it in the complaint an I did have the Complaint before me ATTORNEY TOMBACK Well to be honest I dont want to get into the merits but its not quite as simple as the Attorney General might think THE COURT But that is not for me to determine right ATTORNEY TOMBACK Right Pro a te ST PB THE COURT Another Judge is going to handle that ATTORNEY TOMBACK What I want to say are two things One in terms of what the Attorney General can do here you know here are other law enforcement authorities There is a house in New York theres a ranch in New Mexico and it will be a shame if the Attorney General as I understand it has not been in contact with the United States Attorney General for the Southern District of New York which still has the active investigation going It would be a shame if we have a battle between law enforcement agencies and it destroys the ability of the estate to address the vic ims Your Honor I just want to say on my own behalf that I hope that the Attorney General through the presentation of Ms Feldman and Mr Feinberg that she could at east claim to be interested in the victims and I think that we have tried to make a case to her here that this is a good program that will help the victims So hopefully we can make some Probat ST PB progress in figuring out how much the Attorney General needs in terms of cash in the estate to let the program go forward THE COURT Maybe that is what you have to talk to the Attorney General about That is why I keep saying maybe the estate needs to talk to the Attorney General and the Attorney General will say you know what I filed this lien but maybe I will release so much to fund the program but to me the Attorney General has taken a lien on everything this estate has THE WITNESS Your Honor may I be heard just in response THE COURT Sir THE WITNESS This has happened occasionally in other programs that Ive designed THE COURT Okay Somebody help me THE WITNESS For example sometimes the Government says were interested in seizing or freezing the assets because we want to make sure that through restitution and civi and criminal fines there will be enough money available from the estate to compensate Probate ST PB eligible victims Well in this program I would hope based on the testimony that the AG of the Virgin Islands will see no reason to freeze for purposes of restitution and fines owing to the victims because the victims under the estate plan will be compensated quickly without regard to the public in ervening And he second point I think youve made very very clear In my experience that if the estate and distinguished Counsel sit down with the Attorney General now that the Attorney General has a better understanding I think of the program that Your Honor has elicited from the testimony I would like to think that the Attorney General and distinguished Counsel shall be able to work out a solution for these women the innocent victims of this delay Thats the real dilemma here THE COURT Right And thats what I am saying because right if we have the lien and its a question of remember we said we have to go and research it what is that lien That lien seems to take everything ro a te because it begins with the estate and all these assets are sitting in the estate held by the decedent right of these corporations all the shares and all these shares the corporations own the real property So title is in the decedent So the Attorney General has come in and she put a lien on all that property Even if I wanted to fund that program what could I safely move over to that program that doesnt impact what Ive now been put on notice theres nothing that I can transfer And so I think we now understand the program and I thank you for your testimony and Ms Feldman We now understand the program better right not just on paper but understanding how it will work through your testimony Claimants attorneys have heard the testimony on how this program is designed to work We may just need to tweak with the development of the release the protocol has been changed in some way Can it be that this Court can safely with the consent of the Attorney General move so much money into that Probate T-19-PB-OO BO program to then allow that program to proceed to start compensating the victims/claimants in the manner in which Counsel present want it done without impacting what the Attorney General believes she has to do as her legal representative of the People of the Virgin Islands Can that be something that can be done Ive heard it all today but I keep saying I have this lien I know she opposes--and you know what I dont even think the Attorney General has to go to oppose the program All she had to do is file a lien youre stopped I filed a lien and youre stopped right ATTORNEY TOMBACK But just to put a fine point on this Your Honor and Mr Feinberg used the word tragic I would use the word waste But if a terrible waste if the way in which the Court views its jurisdiction and the Attorney General views its responsibilities well see the estate really getting and able to pay for litigation and ultimately probable able to pay for claims simply because there are enough assets in the Probate ST United States to pay for those claims but to go down that road and not be able to fund the program which is a much better option I think for all So we will work with the Attorney General to get something done THE COURT I keep thinking you are missing what I am saying She has taken a lien on the entire estate Shes not taking a lien on Little St James only Shes taking a lien on the entire estate and say no assets can be taken out and her lien is a priority lien It specifically says nothing can be taken out so if I approve the funding of the program you start talking the claimants come in you start awarding claims You know what I asked Ms Feldman so can I then tell the victims now just wait until whatever resolves itself down here in the VI and you said no That defeats the whole purpose of the program Right And we can have claims where it could be a multi-million dollar claim that a person gets or you would have thirty cases so far Thirty people all get million dollars Well now the executor has to be able to pay over this money but we have Probate PB this action going on that no he cant So it has to be worked out with something either hold back to some extent and the Attorney General say yes I understand now This program has been fully presented The claimants attorneys are all in support of it because it will give quick resolution for settlement of these victims They can be compensated Theres a spread depending on what evidence they present but we need to be able to move so much of those assets of the Epstein estate over there to that program And I think it just comes to that So talk I think you people need to talk the two sides need to speak I ve not allowed the Attorney General to int ervene so the AG did not hear any questions but Im still left where I know that I have been put on notice that this lien is there UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER Your Honor THE COURT Yes UNIDENTIFIED SPEAKER If I may we filed a supplemental brief in this matter Your Honor Probate ST ATTORNEY KROBLIN It does address the issues Your Honor has raised THE COURT Did you file a Supplemental brief When ATTORNEY KROBLIN Yes we did Last Friday THE COURT Last Friday ATTORNEY KROBLIN Yeah THE COURT What is the date ATTORNEY KROBLIN The 31st THE COURT Okay then I have to get to that And you addressed that ATTORNEY KROBLIN It addresses the issue one about the priority of the lien Your Honor The Attorney General when they filed that says that the lien takes priority they cut off the last sentence of the Statute and it clearly says that the lien takes priority and it says overall interest if the interest is acquired subsequent to the filing of the notice THE COURT Thats a beneficial interest in it ATTORNEY KROBLIN Yes Your Honor But what weve addressed is that the lien robate ST-1 doesnt actually have a super priority it has other things come before it and its the issue of priority And we also filed in the brief that we believe because the decedent died and the money went to the estate this Court took control of the money Its not some other Court that has control of the money they didnt file the lien prior to the death so therefore this Court has control of all of decedents money and the distribution of it They can file a lien and seek for a claim in this court but as far as freezing the assets we dont believe that they can and its addressed in our Supplemental Brief THE COURT Okay I may have overlooked that Then I will find that ATTORNEY KROBLIN Thank you Your Honor ATTORNEY SMITH Just the same we would like an opportunity to respond Your Honor cause we just got it on Friday Sorry we got it yesterday at five clock by mail so they didnt really want to have us have an opportunity to respond Probate ST 9-ea OOBO THE COURT Well Okay ATTORNEY KROBLIN Thats not true Your Honor ATTORNEY SMITH It is true THE COURT Okay The bottom line is Attorney Kroblin Ive not seen it ATTORNEY KROBLIN I understand Your Honor I just wanted to bring it to the Courts attention THE COURT Im going to look at it You may have given me where I can begin the research on this ATTORNEY KROBLIN Yes Your Honor Just as far a briefing goes for us to understand whether the Government the lien cause in its papers that has been filed although the lien seems very broad in the papers that theyve filed they say they didnt want to impede in any way the victims and their being cqmpensated THE COURT I did note that ATTORNEY KROBLIN So it seems that the Government actually has carved out from the lien what would be this program and any payment to victims So we would like some obat ST clarity on the Governments position whether it actually seeks to impede the process of paying victims or if the lien specifically carves out the program of the victims ATTORNEY SMITH You are free to speak the Attorney General about that issue HE COURT Yes we know He just a designee here What is the extent of the lien correct ATTORNEY SMITH Yes THE COURT And I read the extent of the lien to be everyth i ng ATTORNEY SMITH That is what it provides Your Honor THE COURT But you said you had a Supplemental Brief and I would definitely look for that ATTORNEY SMITH And Your Honor we would just ask for a seven-day period to respond to that THE COURT A seven ATTORNEY SMITH Seven days THE COURT Oh I thought you said seven weeks Pr obate ATTORNEY SMITH No Seven days to respond to it because we just literally got it yesterday afternoon at oclock THE COURT Sorry You may step down from the witness stand Witness excused You know what So the Court is going to--Ive now received the testimony of the interested parties concerning this Voluntary Claims Resolution Program Im going to allow persons to file in seven days you have the response to the Supplemental Brief I do have to find that--any claimants attorneys who wish to file any memorandums of law or anything what you believe can guide the Court again the seven days This Court is going to make a quick turn around on its decision concerning whether it can go ahead to fund this program yes or no on the motion that you have So is that fair enough seven days ATTORNEY SMITH To file the brief Your Honor yes THE COURT And anybody else file any response any information any guidance oba ST P.E any memorandum of law that you believe will assist the Court because I think Ive dealt with all motions before this Court The only one remaining is the creation no the funding of this program through the assets of this estate Correct and will be determined then how the Court reads that lien that has been filed by the Attorney General and in the time where you are preparing your briefs or your memorandum of law or whatever you believe you need to file with the Court I ask both sides Attorney Smith Attorney Tepper please Attorney Blum Attorney Kroblin Attorney Whalen and all the attorneys for the estate to see if we can meet cause I understand the Attorney Generals position and her arguments but I also understand what the estate is trying to achieve as to the victims the alleged victims who are represented by their counsels who wish this program to be put into place so they can proceed because I really agree the program is going to save time and money and especially in attorneys fees It has to be a more effective way of marshalling the assets than bo sides Probate PB I engaging counsel going into courts but I have to understand how why Im researching to see if this lien just tie up everythin of the estate Maybe the parties on thei own could come to some resolution and say we have so I I much money give it to the program fund the program to a low those victims to et their compensation to get their relief a then well fight whatever we have to fight in the civil forfeiture proceeding Fair enough ATTORNEY SMITH hank you Your Honor THE COURT Thank you everyone Hearing Adjourned CJ Certificate Certified to be a true and accurate transcription of said hearing to the best of my ability S/S Nida Bell RPR,RMR Stenographer
