EXHI BI Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK VIRGINIA GIUFFRE Plaintiff New York N.Y Civ RWS GHISLAINE MAXWELL Defendant March p.m Before Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium THE COURT Thank you all very much Im sorry for the inconvenience that I have imposed upon you Im sorry about the inconvenience that you have imposed upon me But having said all of that this really is the first time that weve had an opportunity I think to get together on this case And let me just say I think I mean Im not sure but I think I understand the difficulties of this case There is an emotional element obviously throughout the case on both sides and I understand that Fortunately were blessed by excellent counsel and it would be nice if they can avoid adopting the emotional flavor of their clients and I presume that they will be able to do that it certainly will help because these issues are going to be difficult and Im well aware of it Now at the outset there is some discussion in these papers about meet and confer Let me make clear what I would like from this day forward On any discovery issues I would like to have a meet and confer Now I understand that defense counsel are living in Gods country and theyre not cursed with the metropolitan residence I salute their good judgment in that And so I will say that I will not require you to meet in person but I will require you to meet And I would say this If you have a meet and confer I would like to have correspondence between the parties as to what the subject is so that there is an agreed agenda thats SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium written and we know that both sides know what it is and that will help me if ultimately the problem gets back to me So I would say exchange writing as to what its going to be and have a meeting It doesnt have to be in person but it certainly has to be a significant meeting it cant be just one ten-minute telephone call So thats how I feel about the meet and confer Now Im not going to get into whether thats relevant or not to the problems which we face today Thats just going forward As I say I do hope that you all can it wont be easy but if you deal with these problems as the excellent professionals that you are without the emotional implications having said that Now how to go forward today My thought is the following I have read your papers and to say that I understand the problems would be I guess a lie but Im trying and youll help me I have a list of what I think our issues are and I would like to go through this with you and then when Im finished if we have missed something Im sure you will correct me And Id be pleased to hear if I determine something if you think that Im wrong thats fine too I mean you can tell me why you think Im wrong Now the first problem is the document the issue about improper privilege claims As I understand that issue it is the presence of Gow Cohen and maybe somebody else as SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium defeating the privilege on the one hand On the other hand the assertion by the defense that their participation as whatever they are managers public relations people whatever is necessary for the rendering of legal advice Parenthetically there is a subtext there about whose law applies Let me say I think we are going to apply New York law in this case British law may become relevant in some way or other down the road but for this privilege purpose I think thats where we are I think what I would like is I would like any materials that the obligation to establish this privilege is obviously Ms Maxwells and I would like any materials that she wants to present to me about these meetings to establish that it was necessary for the rendering of legal advice Ill review those materials in camera and try to reach a decision I may need something further after I have looked at them but I think thats the way I ought to deal with that particular privilege issue There is a list of documents as to which objections have been made on a variety of bases I will say probably a catalog of every objection known to the mind of excellent attorneys and I think we will try to deal with those this afternoon and maybe well fail but lets put those aside just for the moment The question about a protective order of course there SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium should be a protective order in this case You are good lawyers and you have been around this track more times than I have and so you can prepare consensually a better protective order than I can and I urge you to do that And in fact I will give you two weeks to do that Should you fail you can present whatever materials you wish to me and I will decide what the protective order is going to be Thats not a good idea because you know the case better than I do obviously and so I urge you to resolve it by your litigation skills and not leave it up to the ignorant district court judge who doesnt really get into this kind of thing very often So you run a risk if you leave it to me Now I would say two weeks and then if you cant get an agreement maybe three weeks from now we wrestle with that Hopefully we wont I have to do that The deposition the defendant of course will be deposed and we can work out right now when Obviously you dont want that deposition until the protective order is completed So what do we do about that Do you want to deal with that today the actual date of the deposition or should we pass that until we accomplish the protective order What do you all think about that MS McCAWLEY Can I be heard on that your Honor This is Sigrid McCawley I am counsel for Ms Giuffre With respect to the deposition date the 25th was the SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium date that my opposing counsel proposed as possibly being available So we set it for that date which is next Friday We also offered to hold that deposition transcript confidential until such time as the protective order could be issued so that there is no barrier to us being able to take this deposition THE COURT How about that Is that OK MR PAGLIUCA Frankly it is not your Honor and the reason is we clearly from the papers submitted so far and the exchange of counsel we have a significant disagreement at this point as to what the word confidential actually means and we have proposed to the plaintiff a protective order that we believe is appropriate and neutral THE COURT Well maybe I can can we get over if thats the primary issue on the protective order can we deal with that now MR PAGLIUCA I think there is a secondary well it may not even be secondary There is another issue that is directly related to that your Honor and that is the lack of production of documents from the plaintiff The Court has not seen these papers yet but there are in my view significant deficiencies with the Rule disclosures There have been failure to produce documents And it is unfair at this point to push these depositions forward without the required exchange of discovery THE COURT Let me ask the plaintiff You really SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium MS McCAWLEY Could I be heard on that Thank you your Honor Im sorry I didnt mean to interrupt you THE COURT What do you think MS McCAWLEY Right The issue is so I issued my deposition notice before they even served discovery requests THE COURT OK All right MS McCAWLEY Ive done pages Theyve done two emails THE COURT Look doesnt it make sense to resolve any document discovery issues perhaps before the deposition MS McCAWLEY I dont think so your Honor I want the testimony of this defendant in order to move this case forward Our discovery closes in July I issued my discovery requests in October I have not gotten the deposition of the defendant yet This is a date she is available She is not leaving the country She is not going anywhere I have her in town next Friday Ill even agree to their protective order if it means I can get her deposition your Honor I just need to get this case moving forward I need one deposition the deposition of the defendant in this case who has called my client a liar We are entitled to depose her and see if she is going to answer the questions about why she was THE COURT All right OK MS McCAWLEY I am entitled to answers SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium THE COURT Well MR PAGLIUCA Your Honor I think this is a good meeting and it is a meeting that should have happened a long time ago Let me say to the Court that we proposed to meet with plaintiffs counsel early on in this case to put together a discovery schedule that made sense We proposed that orally and in writing That proposal was ignored and rebuffed And counsel for the plaintiff then unilaterally scheduled a bunch of depositions without conferring on dates Unilaterally heres the dates here are the depositions We then tried to work through that issue at the same time trying to work through the protective order issue and the document issue and we get no response And I think the agenda here is to gain a tactical advantage by not responding to these requests THE COURT Well I cant believe that lawyers would seek a tactical advantage I cant believe such a thing MR PAGLIUCA I am shocked THE COURT OK Tell you what were going to do Well three weeks lets see Her deposition this question about document production that hasnt been teed up so I dont know MS McCAWLEY And can I be heard on that really quickly I mean If that were the standard that they could wait to THE COURT No It hasnt been teed up I agree SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium Pause OK Then I think what we should do is Im assuming we will resolve the protective order problem weve sort of slug over the can we resolve whats confidential Is that possible Could we do that this afternoon or is that too complicated MS McCAWLEY Your Honor I can have the deposition of the defendant in this case and move this case forward I will agree to their protective order I just want that deposition THE COURT Yes MS McCAWLEY It is that important to me THE COURT I get your point I understand that But at the same time I think given the nature of all that lies in this I think it is fair to say no side would like to have this aired and so weve got to have a protective order that everybody feels comfortable with MS McCAWLEY Your Honor you can today enter the protective order that they submit I will disregard my objections if I get the deposition THE COURT Will you agree now to the protective order MS McCAWLEY Yes If it means I can get her deposition yes I will do that THE COURT Oh OK Good Well that solved that SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium MR PAGLIUCA It is not as simple as that your Honor because this quid pro quo Ill agree to their protective order if I can have the deposition on the 25th doesnt solve the problem THE COURT At least weve separated it She has agreed to the protective order OK So thats done OK Now why cant we have her deposition upon whatever it is a week from Friday MS McCAWLEY Friday the 25th this coming Friday a week from tomorrow THE COURT Oh a week from tomorrow yes MS McCAWLEY Yes MS MENNINGER Your Honor we served discovery requests on plaintiff on February 12th THE COURT Well look thats nice Thats good But I dont have that and I think shes right that there is no rule that says you have to get your discovery requests satisfied before the deposition so MS MENNINGER Your Honor the responses were due last night yesterday so that is prior to Ms Maxwell for the 25th However as a part of producing that discovery response they have said theyre going to take a month to roll out their production not just THE COURT Look Ill tell you what lets do I dont have that but lets well hold the deposition date SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium When we get through with the rest of this stuff well find out if there is something in particular that you want prior to next Friday and see what that is and see if we can get it How is that Pause OK Who pays for what and counsel all of that Those are interesting problems and who knows how they all come out I think all of that is best served by reserving them until the conclusion of the case which is what I shall do The plaintiff wants to produce on a rolling basis and to amend or add to the privilege log as the production goes forward I dont see any problem with that MS MENNINGER Your Honor thats actually the issue I was just alluding to I understand and I have said I dont have a problem with plaintiff producing her documents over the course of the month because she has said that it is a hardship for her to produce them all last night which is when they were due However shes trying to take our clients deposition in the middle of her rolling production in other words show up at the deposition with the documents she happens to get THE COURT Thats what Im saying Maybe what well do is to deal with the document production issue separately MS MENNINGER OK THE COURT And if there are some documents that SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium really seem to be important and they cannot be produced then maybe well put over the well see how that works MS McCAWLEY Your Honor I may be able to short circuit this THE COURT Pardon me MS McCAWLEY I may be able to short circuit this a little bit We produced pages last night We are continuing that production We are moving as fast as we can We produced a privilege log with over entries on it We are continuing to move that forward as quickly as we can With respect to her deposition your Honor Im happy to provide them in advance every document I will be using at her deposition In other words if that is their issue if it means I can get her deposition next Friday I will share with them any document I intend to use at that deposition THE COURT That seems to solve the problem dont you think MS MENNINGER Your Honor I have to disagree I got this responsive objection last night at p.m while I was here in New York Ive taken a look at it and I can give your Honor a sense of the types of objections that plaintiff has lodged to our document request For example their client sold her diary to Radar Online It was published on Radar Online This diary contains plaintiffs allegations against my client So I asked for the diary that was sold to Radar Online SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium THE COURT You get it MS MENNINGER It is copyright and proprietary protected Were not going to produce it So thats the kind of example THE COURT No You get it MS McCAWLEY She doesnt have a diary She might be referring to something else I mean my client doesnt have a diary to produce She doesnt have one Those were handwritten notes that she gave a reporter She doesnt have one THE COURT So you are saying MS McCAWLEY That request is broader I mean THE COURT No MS McCAWLEY I didnt know we were going to be addressing my requests today THE COURT as to the diary you say it doesnt exist There is no diary there are no notes and whatever there is has been the subject of the printed material MS McCAWLEY Yes MS MENNINGER Excerpts excerpts your Honor with my clients name on them in plaintiffs handwriting were sold to Radar Online not the entire document And when I asked for the entire document I was told that it is proprietary and copyright protected THE COURT What is proprietary SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium MS McCAWLEY I think shes referring to a broader request My client doesnt have a diary which is what shes addressing right now I dont have my requests in front of me your Honor We were here on their requests But if you want to read the whole request I can try and remember what THE COURT What are we talking MS McCAWLEY Did they say I was withholding documents I dont think I said I was withholding documents on that request But again I dont have it in front of me and I apologize MS MENNINGER The request number reads Any diary journal or calendar concerning your activity between and Response Ms Giuffre objects to this request to the extent it seeks proprietary and copyright-protected material Ms Giuffre objects in that it seeks information protected by the attorney-client privilege the attorney work product privilege the joint defense interest privilege the agency privilege the investigative privilege the spousal privilege the accountant/client privilege and any other applicable privilege THE COURT Hot dog I tell you thats great MS McCAWLEY But did I say I didnt have THE COURT Shall we use that as the standard objection to every document request and then lets forget about SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium it OK lets do this MS McCAWLEY Your Honor may I be heard on just one point on this issue If the standard were that someone could wait in a case to request documents and then push off depositions by continuing to file new requests its apparently THE COURT Yes I hear you I understand that point Look obviously if there are documents that are covered by the privilege they have to be identified and logged So thats the privilege I dont know what is this proprietary thing What is that all about MS McCAWLEY To the extent she has commercially valuable material that she has written thats covered by its covered by the protective order basically that it would be produced in a confidential format with a copyright-protected format So it is a general objection THE COURT So she will produce that she will produce everything MS McCAWLEY If she has something like that yes Like I said we produced pages yesterday THE COURT And calendars and all of the rest of them MS McCAWLEY To the extent she has any of that we will produce it your Honor THE COURT All right In other words you are going SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium to produce everything except anything that you have that you claim privilege as to which you will log MS McCAWLEY Yes We have been logging THE COURT Well MS MENNINGER Your Honor on this particular one she says her client does not have any nonprivileged documents created during the time period responsive to this request and then there are no privileged documents related to this log on the privilege log So I dont have any way to read this request in a privilege log and figure out whether there are noncopyright materials that werent withheld or there are privileged because all of these privileges were raised THE COURT I take it that whats being said is that she has no privileged documents that would be covered by that request MS MENNINGER Thats not what the objection says And your Honor since she sold her handwritten notes about my client to Radar Online I know they exist because they were excerpted on the Internet THE COURT Yes but she said she doesnt have them She said I mean correct me if I am wrong MS McCAWLEY No she doesnt have them But your Honor I am happy to have first of all she hasnt conferred on these issues that we are talking about here today I am happy to address them fully I feel very comfortable with our SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium discovery production in this case We will continue to roll it out we have done it timely Unlike like the defendants who I served their discovery requests October 27th your Honor We are now in March I received two emails two emails in response I produced pages MS MENNINGER Your Honor she is Unintelligible crosstalk THE COURT Ladies were not going to get anywhere if we who struck John MS McCAWLEY I understand your Honor I think I proposed something very fair by saying that I would share with her any document I intend to use at that deposition I just need the deposition THE COURT I understand I got you OK Now you will identify any document I mean you tell them give them any documents that you are going to use in the deposition MS McCAWLEY Yes THE COURT OK Now is there the business of this production on you are going to have to well wait a minute Let me put it this way The objections to this are overruled except for the privilege OK MS MENNINGER Your Honor Ive proposed dates for my client to be available in two or three weeks once we have received a complete document production which was due last SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium night and I have been told were not going to talk about dates in two or three weeks We havent asked to set them out into May or June Weve just asked for the documents that were due last night to be produced to us before our clients deposition This isnt some kind of game Its just shes been litigating this case for seven years THE COURT OK Well weve dealt with the first objection Now is there another one MS McCAWLEY Right So were here on my motion to compel production of documents I am just getting a little confused because I dont we are here my motion to compel production of documents from her based on my request that THE COURT Lets not worry about the MS McCAWLEY OK I just wanted to be clear I dont have in front of me the request that she is referring to THE COURT OK Anything else that you think you need besides the documents she is going to use the response to Anything else MS MENNINGER Your Honor THE COURT that is critical for the deposition MS MENNINGER Your Honor these were filed last night at p.m the pages were produced to my office which is in Colorado I havent looked at the pages that were produced last night I will have to ask leave of the Court to go back look at the documents that were produced and SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium see what I am missing THE COURT All right If you want to you can come back on Thursday next week and we can argue about whether or not the deposition should go forward on Friday MS MENNINGER OK THE COURT That is all right with me MS MENNINGER That is acceptable your Honor THE COURT OK So maybe weve solved that problem OK Maybe Now on the improper objections by the defendants I suppose I can assume that the defendants objections are just exactly the same as the plaintiffs objections MR PAGLIUCA No your Honor They are not MS McCAWLEY Oh Im sorry This is my motion to compel Can I just address it initially so that I can lay out for the Court what the issues are that we are raising on the motion to compel THE COURT Im sorry MS McCAWLEY This is my motion to compel now Can I address am I able to address that THE COURT Yes MS McCAWLEY So with respect to our motion to compel the documents from the defendant as you know your Honor there are two main objections that I think have to be overcome in order for us to get that production properly The first SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium main objection is the fact that they are objecting to the time period So we have sought requests from which is in around the time when my client contends she was involved with these individuals to the present They objected that that time period is overly broad They only agreed to produce for the period of to and for one month from December to January So they cut out all the years in between and anything post January Now with respect to your Honor maybe saying why would that time period be relevant the entire time period is relevant for a number of reasons First in thats when my client first recalls being THE COURT We can agree I think we can agree at the outset that to what is it MS McCAWLEY THE COURT is relevant MS McCAWLEY Right THE COURT So what were talking about is the what happened in MS McCAWLEY My client was sent to Thailand by Mr Epstein and Ms Maxwell for a training and to pick up another THE COURT So she is no longer MS McCAWLEY And she left She fled to Australia THE COURT OK SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium MS McCAWLEY So with respect to these requests I just want to you know because the Court has mentioned this and it is worthy of referencing that if you look at the defendants request to us they actually request a longer time period they request from to the present So while they dont want us to they dont want to produce to us except for that short window they are requesting the entire period In some cases they request and I did a chart Your Honor would you mind if I just pass this up to you for reference THE COURT OK MS McCAWLEY I did a chart I believe it is on page and it has for you the various requests and what the time periods are and for many of the requests there is no time period at all MR PAGLIUCA I have it I dont need it MS McCAWLEY Oh you have that MR PAGLIUCA I do not need it MS McCAWLEY OK Im sorry So that time period shows that many of those requests dont have a time period at all so it is even broader from infancy to present So in fairness our requests are to the present which we believe is the critical time period Now what happens in So my client does flee to Australia away from these individuals but the conduct continues So we have for example the law enforcement trash SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium pulls that show the message pads of the back and forth of arranging these underaged minors to come for massages things of that nature We have the flight logs that show Ms Maxwell flying times with Jeffrey Epstein of which were with my client when she was underage We have the Palm Beach police report which shows over minors who reported during that time period to up until now being abused in that circumstance in Palm Beach Then we have the arrest that happens of Jeffrey Epstein in Thereafter my client in is Im sorry she receives from the U.S government a victim notification letter At that point in Ms Maxwells deposition is sought in underlying civil cases She flees from that deposition says her mother is ill in England she has to leave the country cannot be deposed She then shows up three weeks later at Chelsea Clintons wedding So clearly she was around she was able to do something but she avoided that deposition Her testimony was never taken in that case So thats in Then we have in my client is interviewed by the FBI about the issues that have happened Then we have in Ms Maxwell starts issuing different statements to the press She continues that issues a statement in which is the statement that we are here about in this case So I contend your Honor that all of those years have SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium relevant information in them with respect to my client THE COURT OK I understand Lets hear from the defendant MR PAGLIUCA So your Honor I have tried to refrain from responding in kind but the problem here is all of this the agenda behind all of this is not really the issue in this case but it is to make inflammatory statements like counsel just made as fact when they are speculation at best your Honor and to pack into the record things that are demonstrably not true but counsel says them like they are true and then refers to her own declaration to support the fact of what she is saying may or may not be true So lets get to the issue here in terms of the relevant timeframe First the plaintiff goes to Thailand on her own volition gets married and moves to Australia where she resides for some years after and has no contact with Ms Maxwell or Mr Epstein So everything that happens from forward has absolutely nothing to do with the plaintiff in this case and she has absolutely no personal knowledge about what did or didnt happen in Florida or elsewhere from that timeframe forward You know I carefully your Honor read your ruling on the motion to dismiss and I believe that you characterized the issue in this case very narrowly and that is is what the plaintiff said about Ms Maxwell and from to true SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium or not Those two individuals have the facts that relate to that and anything outside of that quite frankly is opinion and not a subject matter of this litigation Now you have to focus not only on this expansive timeframe in which the plaintiff is not even in this hemisphere which is combined with the overbroad requests that dont ask for things that might be arguably relevant under a analysis you know for example did this happen with Ms Maxwell and someone else in lets say those arent what the requests are The requests are for all communications for years with plug in the individual all documents relating to whatever you want to plug in there for years And so those two things combined create a grossly overbroad and unmanageable document request Hence the objections Now had we had the ability to confer about this we may have been able to get down to here these are really the relevant timeframes or you need to modify your requests for production to say things like any communication with Jeffrey Epstein related to the plaintiff any communication with this person related to the plaintiff But thats not what the requests are And so what you are left with is an unmanageable pile of requests for production of documents I will note your Honor so the Court has this in context there are requests that have been proposed to Ms Maxwell She has no responsive documents and Ive so SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium indicated to of those requests So we then winnow this down to the ones that we are objecting to for very good reason The timeframe we have proposed is the appropriate timeframe If there are narrowly tailored requests for production for something that may be relevant outside that timeframe then they should propose that and not what they are proposing currently which makes the entire process unwieldy and unreliable MS McCAWLEY Your Honor the underlying issue in this case is whether or not Ms Maxwell lied when she said my client was not subject to the abuse that she said she was subject to So in order to prove that for defamation with malice we have to prove that my client was abused by these individuals that these individuals did take advantage of her in the way that she expressed Whats relevant to that is the sexual trafficking ring If after my client left they are also trafficking other underaged girls repetitively that is relevant to prove the truth of my clients allegations as well We are entitled to that in discovery your Honor One of the requests is the documents relating to communications of Jeffrey Epstein If she is e-mailing Jeffrey Epstein about the girls shes going to send over to him in before he is arrested thats relevant to my clients claim your Honor So we shouldnt be told that were not entitled to these documents or that were SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium only entitled to two emails out of all of our requests In addition he says that there are requests that they have no documents for your Honor but again they have restricted the time period to this very short window and then they answered in their responses OK So MR PAGLIUCA That is not true If you read actually read the response there is no restriction because we have looked and there are no documents Were actually trying to move this ball forward your Honor and whats happening here is we keep getting sucked back into this morass of maybe something happened If you listen to the words that counsel is saying your Honor it is very illustrative of the fishing expedition If there is this then it is relevant But that is not what they are asking for And you have to go back to the request All documents Request No All documents relating to communications with Jeffrey Epstein from to present Well thats not all documents concerning trafficking or underaged girls thats all documents relating to which could be anything in the universe Those are the reasons why I objected Request No All documents relating to communications with Andrew Albert Christian Edward Duke of York from to present You know what the heck does a communication with the Duke in any old communication have to do with anything in this case Nothing If you SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium said if you give me a request for production of documents that said give me any documents that talk about your press release with the Duke well that might be relevant and discoverable but these are grossly overbroad If they had conferred with us we would have been able to narrow this down but they havent because there is an agenda here that quite frankly I dont understand your Honor But what I think it is is to simply pack the record the written record and the oral record with these very specious quite frankly disgusting allegations about my client and thats not what were here for If they want something they should ask for it specifically If they just want to you know kind of throw things around if this then that then thats what were about here MS McCAWLEY Your Honor THE COURT All right I think I understand this issue What else do we have We have the timeframe and the specificity MS McCAWLEY Right So your Honor there is the timeframe for the request and then right I assume that they are alleging that these are overbroad in some way as THE COURT I would rather think I just heard that MS McCAWLEY Right Exactly So your Honor just to touch on that very quickly Not only and you will see it SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium in our papers but we also give specific examples of why these are relevant for example and not overbroad For example two of the people we asked for documents and communications with Sarah Kellen and Nadia Marcinkova when they were asked in their depositions about Ms Maxwell sexually trafficking underaged girls both of those individuals took the Fifth If there are documents between Ms Maxwell and Sarah Kellen discussing those issues at any time from to present we want those documents your Honor And while they say that day-to-day communications with Jeffrey Epstein wouldnt be relevant they would If theyre communicating on a daily basis thats relevant THE COURT I understand that point MS McCAWLEY So your Honor those are the two key issues as I understand it the time period and then the overbreadth of the request that they have been objecting to And your Honor we just obviously want discovery in this case to move it forward THE COURT All right So weve got that I understand that Is there any other broad category MS McCAWLEY No Those are the two issues as I understand it the date range which theyve limited THE COURT If we resolve those two have we resolved the objections to the document demand MS McCAWLEY Thats my understanding that they SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium should be producing at that point THE COURT All right MR PAGLIUCA Well there are privilege issues that remain unresolved THE COURT No Were going to deal with the privilege issues MR PAGLIUCA I just didnt want you to think THE COURT No I would be pleased to hear anybody if they want to be heard on my proposal on the privilege MR PAGLIUCA No I think that is fine your Honor I just didnt want to let that be unsaid The other thing I need to add in this discussion though your Honor is this You know the plaintiff repeatedly now tries to distance herself from her own requests for production by comparing for example the timeframe at issue to the timeframe that Ms Maxwell believes the plaintiff should be responding to THE COURT OK All right Well take a short recess Recess THE COURT Please be seated Thank you very much The motion is granted and denied Does that help MR PAGLIUCA Perfect your Honor THE COURT Lets do this This is an effort to keep this going forward SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium I think a blanket coverage of all documents is too broad I think the period is relevant I mean it could be relevant I dont say it is but it could be relevant So the period is all right that is the and later I think any documents with named individuals thats fine As to too broad categories heres my problem and maybe you can help me Any documents which relate to any activity of the defendant with respect to the practice which has been alleged Now I dont want to try to define what that is and I hope you all today will define that And then I would say any documents that relate to the duties to be performed by Maxwell And it may be that there are other definitional categories that would be appropriate but they dont occur to me at the moment Now let me ask the plaintiff how do you want to define the activities MS McCAWLEY Im comfortable defining activities your Honor I think you said any documents which relate to the activities of defendant with respect to the practice which we would say would be sexual abuse or trafficking of minors THE COURT OK MS McCAWLEY And I think that everybody has an understanding of what that is So if there is emails about girls getting massages for those sorts of THE COURT All right So what do you all think about SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium that MR PAGLIUCA If were limiting it to minors which I understand this to be limited to I think thats fine I mean we are talking about the allegation in this case is according to Ms Giuffre is that she was an underaged minor trafficked individual and my client has vehemently denied that in the press and here And so thats the issue And I think if thats what we are talking about we are fine with that MS McCAWLEY Your Honor can I just clarify really quickly There was trafficking of both underaged and women that were over So I wouldnt feel comfortable limiting it to just the minors under MR PAGLIUCA You cant traffic somebody MS McCAWLEY You can prosecute someone over international lines and that is a federal offense if they are THE COURT Lets MR PAGLIUCA Thats not the definition THE COURT Let me if we skip the minors what would it be It would be any yes it would be any MS McCAWLEY Females THE COURT The documents relating to trafficking what for MS McCAWLEY Sexual trafficking or sexual abuse of SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium any female THE COURT That is OK MR PAGLIUCA To be clear we talking about something that is illegal right THE COURT Are we I dont think it has to be illegal in the context of the defamation MR PAGLIUCA Let me sort of recap your Honor Because the defamation is that Ms Giuffre was a minor and from to somehow was quote-unquote sexually trafficked THE COURT Your clients statement is that she was a liar and I mean I dont mean to prejudge that but I mean thats the issue as I understand it MR PAGLIUCA Well and the Court narrowed this down in the Courts order on the motion to dismiss which is that the statements relating to Ms Maxwells participation in the trafficking of the plaintiff were untrue or unfounded Those are the statements THE COURT OK MS McCAWLEY Yes THE COURT Then I think it is conceivable that it wouldnt be limited to minors What Im trying to say is if there were trafficking other than with minors that might also be relevant to the existence of the practice MS McCAWLEY Exactly THE COURT OK So it isnt limited to minors SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium MS McCAWLEY Thank you your Honor THE COURT Anything else MS McCAWLEY No your Honor I just wanted to have an understanding because maybe Im not a quick study but as to what your ruling is with respect to the deposition I understand that I agreed to waive any THE COURT Where we are is the deposition is going forward If they want to come forward and seek to adjourn it I will hear it next Thursday MS McCAWLEY OK So it is set for Friday If they come to you on Thursday we argue about that THE COURT Yes MS McCAWLEY But it is going forward on Friday THE COURT Yes MS McCAWLEY Thank you your Honor MS MENNINGER Your Honor with respect to the document responses and production that we received last night I would ask the Court for an expedited briefing schedule so that can be heard next Thursday as well THE COURT Sure MS MENNINGER Because I have looked at them and I think that there are some very facially invalid THE COURT Sure That is fine MS MENNINGER responses THE COURT That is OK SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium MS MENNINGER So I would ask your Honor it is Thursday now I would ask if I could to file the motion I mean were not going to have THE COURT By noon Wednesday MS MENNINGER By noon on Wednesday and then well be back to your Honor on Thursday THE COURT Yes MS McCAWLEY Can I have it on Tuesday so I can respond or no THE COURT Well its a short fuse All right I would say by close of business if you make whatever you want to do with that by the close of business on Tuesday instead of noon Wednesday that gives you I just cheated you out of I did a good thing I did a good thing I permitted you to have a nice nights sleep on Tuesday MS MENNINGER And your Honor I think if I heard your Honor correctly that if we had other issues with respect to our clients deposition we could raise those and have that for next Thursday as well THE COURT Yeah but its going to be yes Sure Listen I cant prevent lawyers from making mistakes or excuse me making motions So do whatever you MS MENNINGER As much as you might like to THE COURT So do whatever you want to do MS MENNINGER All right Thank you your Honor SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of G3hdgium THE COURT Anything else MS McCAWLEY Thats it your Honor Thank you THE COURT Do you think the four of us are going to survive this experience MS McCAWLEY I think so your Honor THE COURT Yeah OK Lets hope so MS McCAWLEY Thank you your Honor THE COURT Anything else MS McCAWLEY In a period of time MR PAGLIUCA Nothing further your Honor THE COURT OK Thanks SOUTHERN DISTRICT REPORTERS P.C Case Document Filed Page of
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